B&M Changes

I had a stark experience this weekend and was curious if it was just a phenomenon in my area of if you guys notice it too. I ended up with a weekend to myself as my wife and son were out of town. I figured I would spend some time at a B&M and just kick back and relax. I loaded up on cigars before my son was born and I haven't been to my usual B&M haunts in maybe a year since I don't get a chance to smoke as much as I used to. My favorite place was gone. I got online and they have a new address a good 15 miles away with hours listed as "by appointment only". The guy had an awesome set up and a great lounge area last year, he had been in business for over 10 years. So then I drove down the street to a new lounge that was opened by a guy who closed 2 of his shops in town to open one consolidated shop. The selection was meh at best and 95% of the space was the lounge area. I was told only members could enter the lounge. There were a couple chairs not in the lounge area but they were lined up facing the wall of the lounge, like 4 feet away from the wall. You could sit there and not be able to converse with your fellow smokes and stare at the wall. So either join the lounge or buy your cigars and leave. The guy behind the counter was pretty gruff about it, so I left. At that point I heard from a friend about meeting up at a brewery with an outside area and I just went home and grabbed a few cigars. It was depressing. There's only one other true B&M in Knoxville I know of. It's the only one left I would go to.

Have you guys noticed a drop off in the number and quality of your B&Ms? I'm sure it is a tougher business to stay in than it used to be. I hope this isn't a nationwide trend.

Since Dion started Illusione brand, I have only been going to his stores when I hit up B&Ms. He has never had a private lounge, only private poker table.

We got our first and only B&M in town about 3 years ago. I was really excited about it. About 2 weeks before it opened, I stopped by there and found the owner inside and talked to him about it and told him how happy I was that we were getting a cigar lounge. He showed me around, told me about his plans and that it was going to be members only. He knew nothing about cigars because he was a pipe guy. He had a cabinet humidor, but no
Cigars. I went ahead and paid my yearly dues ($250), signed his contract and became member #1 and got a locker. I told him at the start that I already had a good supply of cigars I enjoyed, so I would mostly be smoking my own cigars and he said that would be fine.

Lounge opened as planned and I went down on opening day and he had the humidor loaded with dog rockets and priced like they were super premiums. No biggie, I had my own and a locker. 2 weeks later I stopped in again and he said "hey, he had made a change and he had another agreement for me to sign." It said that ALL cigars smoked had to be purchased from his selection. I told him that was a no bueno and to give me my money back. I then told him his selection of cigars was way overpriced shit cigars and there was NO WAY I was going to sign his agreement and that under those Conditions I had no desire to be a member any longer and if I had known this beforehand I would not have joined. He said to go ahead and smoke what I liked and occasionally buy ancigar from him, assuring me he would get some better cigars at a better price.

So that is what I did and kept my membership for that year, but didn't rejoin when the year was up. I haven't been back since. No biggie. He did get about 25-30 members and I met and visited with most of them. Alex the owner is a nice guy and we visited a lot and we considered each other friends. But he knew why I quit going and let my membership expire. I have heard he has gotten a little better selection and has lowered his prices a little, but I won't be back.

My most local shop (45 min drive) is Native American owned and in the middle of nowhere. The guy had some extra space in the building with his gas and C-store and was already distributing gas station smokes to area shops so he figured why not. In the 3 years he's added better lines and he listened to my suggestion to put up a wall and use some dead space for a small lounge. I consider it pure luck that I have this option.
Without his tax free status he would have never done it and I would need to drive to Buffalo (90 min drive). There's 3-4 shops in town but with the NY cigar tax and shop pricing, sticks are almost double what my most local charges. The EPC Encore was $14.50 compared to $8.55 for example. 1 or 2 of the shops have private lounges but I think you can buy a day pass. None have any signs specifically saying no outside cigars and I have brought my own but usually have bought some before smoking my own.
But this is our only choice here in NY. There is no smoking areas in any bars or restaurants and none around here have outside smoking areas.

Not being the outgoing or social type, I don't frequent such places.
I think there are some around here but I've never been to them.
I don't go to bars either. I hate the people there but at least the atmosphere sucks.

Seems as though the B&Ms around me are doing just fine, and there are several of them. I would say that 90 percent of them are under the same roof as a liquor store and owned by the same person. So I think that helps their revenue stream. I'm not sure how well they'd do without that aspect.

I've never been too fond of lounges, though. I'm just not a fan of sitting in a stuffy room filled with smoke. It's a bit claustrophobic. Luckily, Wichita has several bars with heated patios that I can go to year-round. And when it's above 45 degrees, you can find me on my back porch minding my own business.

Most of the lounges in NYC that I go to are NOT members only and BYOB. They require that you buy at least one of their smokes and then you can smoke your own. One charges you for a glass (with ice if you want) and sell water/soft drinks. One has a hostess and just asks that you tip her. Only one has a full bar so they make their money there.

My two biggest local B&M's are CI and Famous. There are a few good smaller one around as well. It's hard to compare to other areas but the smaller guys have to keep their game up or the shut down pretty quick give the other local options.

DogRockets will help ya out with BM problems at the orgy!

A couple of years ago California passed yet another tobacco tax but this time instead of just hitting the poor cigarette folks, this one stepped across the line and hit both cigars and chewing tobacco.

This means paying a 69% tax at the register. Which is on top of all the other taxes a B&M owner experiences like a floor tax, not to mention the cost to keep the lights on and employ people.

California also has this law where there's no smoking allowed in establishments that sell alcohol. Some places have established a work around by becoming a private club or lounge. But even this loophole is getting closed with the health department.

We've lost a lot of good lounges in the last couple years. It's a real shame too because a lot of these people were following the American dream by having their own business in a field that they personally enjoy.

So what happens at the lounges that are left outside of the big cities is having you pay $10 for a no name cigar or $15 for something in the back of a CI catalog.

Still, I try to go now and then to support those that are left. When I do I typically go top shelf because to me it feels better to pay $27 for a padrone then it does $15 for a "Monte Cristo".

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Originally Posted by Emperor Zurg

Not being the outgoing or social type, I don't frequent such places.
I think there are some around here but I've never been to them.
I don't go to bars either. I hate the people there but at least the atmosphere sucks.

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I'm kind of with you. I just don't like to hang in bars etc. anymore. I spent many moons in them years ago...

I'm in NY so we scared away most everyone from doing business. My local B&M never has anyone smoking cigars in it. Couple high tops with no chairs, small walk in with a fair selection, coffee, news on a small TV, and waaay overpriced accessories. Course scratchers and other tobacco but that's it.

There's 2 places in Syracuse which is an hour away from me, but I've never been. So it's really hard to judge. I ship my cigars in usually, and locals meet up at a couple bars with patios.

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After reading these, I count myself lucky. That is not a trend I have seen here. I have two very nice true Cigar bars within 15 of my house and a couple more well stocked cigar stores with smoking areas. Both of the nearby cigar bars are often times busy. Neither one cares if you bring your own. I still buy from them though.
One if them just bought a barrel of Blantons and released about half the bottles were made available for sale. A complete set on a barrel stave was also auctioned off. Anyway, the true cigar bars seem to be thriving.

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Originally Posted by Nature

After reading these, I count myself lucky. That is not a trend I have seen here. I have two very nice true Cigar bars within 15 of my house and a couple more well stocked cigar stores with smoking areas. Both of the nearby cigar bars are often times busy. Neither one cares if you bring your own. I still buy from them though.

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Same here, about being lucky. I can think of 4 cigar lounges/bars in St. Louis within 20 miles right off the top of my head. 1 is a true cigar bar - Nice walk-in humidor with a full bar, leather chairs, etc. 2 are BYOB, both with great selections. The 4th used to be my hangout as it's close, but is also the one with the worst selection, they sell bottled beer (so not BYOB), and keep changing the rules and store hours. A bunch of the regulars complain, but there's not another option nearby so we just deal with it.

You guys in NY just need to move to the Midwest. It's pretty great out here.

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Originally Posted by Rocket Scientologist

You guys in NY just need to move to the Midwest. It's pretty great out here.

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Actually doing the research to see if I can open a lounge/bar!

I was in Pittsburgh a couple weeks ago to see the Rangers play the Penguins. Forgot to pack any cigars so was looking for a place to pick up a couple. Found a place on the Strip called Leaf and Bean. Great place to hang out and smoke a couple cigars. Great bunch of regulars there and hung out while my wife went off shopping. Dinish Patel showed up and was handing out free cigars. I would recommend this place to anyone visiting the Pittsburg area.

My most local shop which also had a lounge granfathered* in closed up a year or two ago.

Don't know the reason but imho if it's not the taxes (moreso in other states) then it's the online competition on overall price that is hurting many of the b&m's. And of course not just in the cigar industry but in many others, too. Hence the ghost town some malls have become.

Which reminds me, the long established "Tinder Box" (a national chain of cigar shops) also closed in the local mall.
So to answer your question, @jhendrick, here in NC anyway, yes, this is a trend.

* btw, by "grandfatheted" I mean the law in NC currently states that all cigar shops, bars, lounges and the like that include smoking on-premise must be free-standing facilities and not part of a series of attached businesses like a strip center or such.

The one I mentioned that closed up was in a strip center, so who knows, aside from the business challenges I mentioned maybe the rent just got too high or the landlord decided not to renew their lease.

Not a big deal to me because like @emperorzurg, i never felt at home there as carrying on a conversation was like pulling teeth (like seemingly everywhere else I go here).
Now, when in NY, I frequent a little shop that has a friendly owner and great folks coming and going and I've always had a very good time. Go figure.

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