Flavor Wheel & Taste Calibration

This weekend I'm going to try to taste everything on this wheel to get a good calibration of specific tastes.

I'm gonna try to do it in the six sectors, make one post per sector, and describe everything in my own words.

Feel free to join. If I can find everything, and you don't feel like purchasing everything - I'll send you a kit.

This will be a prerequisite to the Rojas Cigar Specialist, that TJ most generously MAW'd me, so I can be on-point when it comes to the sticks.

Nutty Notes:
https://www.cigarbum.com/forum/gener...ost217168.html

Herb & Spice Notes:
https://www.cigarbum.com/forum/gener...ost217178.html

Coffee Notes:
https://www.cigarbum.com/forum/gener...ost217193.html

Sweet Notes:
https://www.cigarbum.com/forum/gener...ost217289.html

Wood & Floral Notes:
https://www.cigarbum.com/forum/gener...ost217315.html

Sooo... Barnyard... that's manure you understand. You really going to take a mouthful of manure? And 'earthy'... that's dirt. Better than manure maybe but even so...

Not sure I'm capable of detecting all those flavors.
Funny thing is barnyard is definitely one I can. Its more of a smell (though most of taste IS smell) with sweetness and I don't find it offensive at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Emperor Zurg

Sooo... Barnyard... that's manure you understand. You really going to take a mouthful of manure? And 'earthy'... that's dirt. Better than manure maybe but even so...

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Thought 'barnyard' was more of a general livestock smell along with whatever's in or near a barn - not just poo specifically. I always thought 'earthy' goes beyond dirt - like vegetal and floral.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chain_gang

This weekend I'm going to try to taste everything on this wheel to get a good calibration of specific tastes.

I'm gonna try to do it in the six sectors, make one post per sector, and describe everything in my own words.

Feel free to join. If I can find everything, and you don't feel like purchasing everything - I'll send you a kit.

This will be a prerequisite to the Rojas Cigar Specialist, that TJ most generously MAW'd me, so I can be on-point when it comes to the sticks.Attachment 8095

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I'm totally down for this- think it should be interesting

I think this is a cool endeavor and will watch with interest. But I gotta tell ya, I don't indentify very many flavors in tobacco, so I quit trying to identify flavors a long time ago and just enjoy the smoke. One that does surprise me and is distinct when it occurs is cinnamon. And the barnyard I seem to detect if I pay attention. But my old taste buds just don't seems to give a shit most of the time. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chain_gang

Thought 'barnyard' was more of a general livestock smell...

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I figure livestock smell the way they do mostly because they are covered in sh!t.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chain_gang

...along with whatever's in or near a barn...

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again... sh!t, that smell would be manure mostly... tho I will say I do find the sweetish smell of cow manure somewhat pleasant from a distance

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chain_gang

I always thought 'earthy' goes beyond dirt - like vegetal and floral.

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I always figured 'earthy' for the smell of freshly tilled garden dirt or a freshly dug hole. I'd not be a fan of 'earthy' straight up neat but there are 'earthy' flavors (imo) in a medium well steak and also in sauteed mushrooms - probably why they go so well together. Good excuse to head out the local steakhouse if you ask me :p :p

Anyway, I'm interested to see your take on all these. Should be an interesting thread.

*Will edit and update as I go.

Method:

First, I ate some of each to get the overall difference. Then came back to each individual nut and made notes. Chose unsalted, raw, and untoasted nuts to capture the true taste. Gargled water in between.



Nutty Notes sector (pic attached):

1. Walnut
Unchewed:
Sharp, dirty, gritty, acidic
Chewed:
Not oily, acidic, less dirty, slightly pasty, not so much creamy, residual taste lingers longer

2. Peanut
Unchewed:
Slightly oily, not sharp, not acidic - probably more basic (pH-wise), neutral tasting besides oil
Chewed:
Much more oily, clean, creamy, softer than walnut, not much residual taste


3. Chestnut (not tasted yet)

4. Cashew
Unchewed:
Slightly tastable, neutral pH
Chewed:
Slight sweetness, more fatty than oily, neutral pH, clean, soft taste, slight residual taste lingers

5. Almond
Unchewed:
Slight taste, neutal pH
Chewed:
Probably more basic pH, meaty, gristley, more earthy, more of a residual taste lingers

Nuts not on wheel:

6. Pecan
Unchewed:
Not as sharp as a walnut but close, gritty, acidic, slightly metallic
Chewed:
More acidic, more earthy, more woody, slight sweetness, more sharp, residual taste lingers



Additional notes:
-It will be hard to discern between walnuts and pecans - maybe that's why pecans aren't listed
-Believed ease of detection (greatest-least): walnut/pecan (tied), almond, peanut, cashewhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b915d603e3.jpg

Herb & Spice Notes

Method:
Gonna tackle this sector slower - one at a time with some recovery time in between. Smell first, then let it rest in the mouth, and then chewing. Maybe I'll cycle through them again without waiting to see the immediate differences.

Edit 1 Method:
Freshly grinded each peppercorn - couldn't get much smell from ungrinded peppercorns.

1. Black Pepper (fresh ground peppercorn)
Smell:
Tad sweet, pretty floral (more than the cloves probably), not so much pungent but more bold, good spice amount on first smell - first whiff made my nose and back of neck tingle, smells afterwards - not as much spice (nose may have become acclimated)
Unchewed:
Good burn - a bit more than the cloves (this was after cloves), salivating more
Chewed:
Spice uptick and more burn throughout mouth - mostly noticed on palate and of course where I'm chewing, dark tasting, a sharp lingering and consistent burn

2. White Pepper (fresh ground peppercorn)
Smell:
Faint, subtle sweetness, spice smellable but faint, kinda aromatic/floral
Unchewed:
Slow burn buildup, intense of tip of tongue
Chewed:
Probably more intense than black pepper inside the mouth - more fiery maybe, burn seems to not be concentrated in one area, feeling a subtle burn through nose.

-Probably what a good majority of cigar "pepper" tastes/sensations are.

3. Green Pepper (fresh ground peppercorn)
Smell:
Thyme, kinda zesty/tangy, little to no boldish spice
Unchewed:
Subtle hint of sweetness, slightly cool to the taste, slight burn, kinda zesty/tangy, bit lemony
Chewed:
Burn mostly noticed on tongue, bit thyme-y, kinda refreshing taste, intensity of spice/burn is much less than black pepper, burn lingers on tongue

4. Red Pepper (crushed - pizza packet)
Smell:
Tomato paste, somewhat-fiery spice tingles the nose
Unchewed:
Diluted tomato paste, intense burn on tip of tongue
Chewed:
Burn spreads and itensifies around entire mouth, less burn on tip of tongue - more mid tongue burn, burn felt slightly in nose; burn residual lingers more on palate, rear tongue, and cheeks; hot pepper 'heat'

5. Cayenne (ground)
Smell:
Tomato paste, slight cinnamon-sugar, slight spice
Unchewed/Chewed: tomato paste, slow burn build-up, much more intensity on tongue tip, very fiery, intense 'heat', burn trickles down to tonsels, sinus clearing, residual burn on mid tongue and palate - ends on palate

6. Cinnamon (ground)
Smell:
Accidently snorted some, pretty good on the retrohale - LMAO! Soft smell, powdered sugar sweetness and smell
Unchewed/Chew (same since powdered):
Slow burn builds up to a low intensity, tongue burn, slight linger to burn, there was something that made me think 'blood' - iron possibly?

7. Clove (full bud)
Smell:
Aromatic, sweet, pungent, brown sugary, decent level of spice
Unchewed:
Nothing
Chewed:
Dry, very acidic, noticeable burn, not sweet, potpourri-ish, burn picks up here and there, cool to the taste, nictoine-ish, strong, deep

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...bcc79d0a2b.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chain_gang

Herb & Spice Notes (pic attached)

*Will edit and update as I go.

Method:
Gonna tackle this sector slower - one at a time with some recovery time in between. Smell first, then let it rest in the mouth, and then chewing. Maybe I'll cycle through them again without waiting to see the immediate differences.

1. Black Pepper (NYT - not yet tasted)

2. White Pepper (NYT)

3. Green Pepper (NYT)

4. Red Pepper (NYT)

5. Cayene (NYT)

6. Cinnamon (NYT)

7. Clove
Smell:
Aromatic, sweet, pungent, brown sugary, decent level of spice
Unchewed:
Nothing
Chewed:
Dry, very acidic, noticeable burn, not sweet, potpourri-ish, burn picks up here and there, cool to the taste, nictoine-ish, strong, deep

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...bcc79d0a2b.jpg

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I have smoke a few cigars where I have picked up a floral flavor. I am not a fan of this but your description of chewed clove makes me think this is that flavor I am not a fan of. When I think clove I think of ham and sweet. The only time I know I like clove taste is pumpkin pie.

Thanks for this gives me something to try to pin down next time I pick up those floral hints.

Black pepper done. See Herbs & Spice Notes post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by josh lucky 13

I have smoke a few cigars where I have picked up a floral flavor. I am not a fan of this but your description of chewed clove makes me think this is that flavor I am not a fan of. When I think clove I think of ham and sweet. The only time I know I like clove taste is pumpkin pie.

Thanks for this gives me something to try to pin down next time I pick up those floral hints.

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Used to enjoy the clove cigarettes when I was in the Navy. Thought they were a Middle East thing, because that's where I started smoking them and since they were spiced.
My aftershave has a good clove smell and I love throwing it on after a shave.

Green pepper done.

White pepper and cinnamon done.

Coffee Notes (pic attached)

*Will edit and update as I go.

Method:

Whole beans for dark roast and espresso l consumed.

Edit Method 1:
Added drinking to tasting for the coffee/espresso.

1. Espresso (Light/Medium Roast)
Smell:
Bit chocolatey
Unchewed:
Nothing
Chewed:
At first there's a slight chocolatey taste, then it turns more dark chocolate, and becomes pretty bitter and ultra-dark chocolatey. Not as bold as the dark roast.
Drink (shot):
Acidic and bitter, rich earth, bitter residual. Tasting notes list baker's chocolate, and since I've recently had it - it is there. Also lists citrus (acidity maybe?) and red currant - no idea what red currant is.

2. Dark Roast
Smell:
Oily, mostly bold and acidic
Unchewed:
Nothing
Chewed:
Deep, very dark, not acidic - neutral, the initial chewing distinctly made a lot of cigar tastes come to mind - maybe before the entire mouth/palate is dominated by the darkness.
Drink (brewed black): NYT

-Ezra Zion popped in my mind. I believe the initial chewing of dark roast is very similar to a signature taste probably all (4 so far) had. Also EZ sticks have a mineral oil taste, I believe - as I was changing my differential oil, the smell made EZ come to mind.

3. Coffee with cream (dark roast with half and half)

4. Blond roast coffee
Smell: NYT
Taste: NYT
Drink (day old, black):
Flat, tea-ish, low acidity, slightly berry-ish, lightly roasted.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...32111dbce7.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chain_gang

Coffee Notes (pic attached)

*Will edit and update as I go.

Method:

Whole beans for dark roast and espresso l consumed.

1. Espresso (NYT)

2. Dark Roast
Smell:
Oily, mostly bold and acidic
Unchewed:
Nothing
Chewed:
Deep, very dark, not acidic - neutral, the initial chewing distinctly made a lot of cigar tastes come to mind - maybe before the entire mouth/palate is dominated by the darkness.

-Ezra Zion popped in my mind. I believe the initial chewing of dark roast is very similar to a signature taste probably all (4 so far) had. Also EZ sticks have a mineral oil taste, I believe - as I was changing my differential oil, the smell made EZ come to mind.

3. Coffee with cream (NYT)

4. Blond roast coffee (NYT)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...32111dbce7.jpg

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Matthew, this exercise is pretty cool stuff! Well done!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chain_gang

Coffee Notes (pic attached)

*Will edit and update as I go.

Method:

Whole beans for dark roast and espresso l consumed.

1. Espresso (NYT)

2. Dark Roast
Smell:
Oily, mostly bold and acidic
Unchewed:
Nothing
Chewed:
Deep, very dark, not acidic - neutral, the initial chewing distinctly made a lot of cigar tastes come to mind - maybe before the entire mouth/palate is dominated by the darkness.

-Ezra Zion popped in my mind. I believe the initial chewing of dark roast is very similar to a signature taste probably all (4 so far) had. Also EZ sticks have a mineral oil taste, I believe - as I was changing my differential oil, the smell made EZ come to mind.

3. Coffee with cream (NYT)

4. Blond roast coffee (NYT)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...32111dbce7.jpg

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Matthew, this exercise is pretty cool stuff! Well done! I tried to give you some RG, but it said I need to give others some love first. Can someone slap some gauge on this Bum for me please!

Sweet Notes

*Will edit and update as I go. NYT = not yet tasted.

Method:

Spoonfuls of molasses and blackstrap molasses. Piece of baking unsweetened chocolate (100% cocoa). Will try to redo cocoa with milk chocolate and dark chocolate back to back.

Edit Method 1:

Maple is maple butter (spreadable maple - only ingredient is organic maple syrup).

1A. Molasses
Smell:
Caramelized brown sugar, tea; and something faint I cannot put my finger on, but I thought of vinegar, catsup, and worchestershire.
Taste:
More worchestershire-y, brown sugary, caramelized brown sugar

1B. Blackstrap Molasses
Smell:
Definitely a worchestershire smell - much more noticable in the blackstrap and it dominates the smell.
Taste:
Kinda fishy, very salmon-y, caramel residual taste that lingers.

2. Milk Chocolate (baking chips)
Smell:
What I consider 'chocolate', much sweeter than cocoa, buttery, bit salty, more pronounced 'chocolate' smell than cocoa
Taste:
'Chocolate' bar, way sweeter than cocoa, bit buttery, savory

3. Maple (maple butter)
Smell:
Caramel and maple
Taste:
Caramel and maple

4. Dark Chocolate
Smell:
Very similar to cocoa (#6), bittersweet
Taste:
In-between cocoa and milk chocolate

5. Caramel: NYT

6. Cocoa (baking unsweetened 100% cocoa)
Smell:
Chocolate
Taste:
Dry, powdery (this was a bar), kinda bitter, bittersweet, bits of acid, and maybe clay
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...99c546ff7f.jpg

Spice and herb notes finished. Blonde coffee updated earlier.

Wood & Floral Notes

*Will edit and update as I go. NYT = not yet tasted.

Method/Info:
-Most of the cereal grains are pretty straight forward - oatmeal is oatmeal, and so on. Won't try to be an ass here, so when I smell and taste it, I'll just put in parenthesis what I taste tested to dial me in.
-The cereal grains is broken down by the seven principle grains (thanks Google).
-Skipping 'Grassy'.
-Wood will take time to get through. I chewed on a hickory chip, and got nothing. Definitely need to burn some for the smell and let some soak in water for a while for the taste comparison. Oak and cedar chips may be hard to come by.

1. Cedar (NYT)

2. Cereal grains
2A. Wheat (wheat wrap)
2B. Maize (NYT)
2C. Rice (NYT)
2D. Oats (rolled oats - 100% whole grain)
2E. Rye (seeded rye bread)
2F. Sorghum (can't find)
2G. Barley (Quick Barley - raw)
Notes:
Similar to oat, but toned down; starchy and neutral residual

3. Grassy (skipping)

4. Hickory
Smell (unburned):
BBQ seasoning
Smell (smoke):
Bit of seasoning, fresh steeped tea, stronger than oak
Taste (chip soaked water)
Tea, much stronger and sharper than oak

5. Oak
Smell (unburned):
Bit sweet, tea
Smell (burned):
A light and freshly steeped tea
Taste (chip soaked water):
Diluted tea

6. Tea
6A. Black (English breakfast tea)
Smell:
Mild tea
Taste:
Diluted black coffee minus acid, mild-medium tea
6B. Green Tea
Smell:
Grassy, lemongrass-y, bit sweet
Taste:
Milder and smoother than black tea, a bit lemongrass-y


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3882e3cc7c.jpg

@SoCal gunner this flavor wheel exercise is definitely helping me pick up stuff. May want to give it a shot before tackling the Rojas sticks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chain_gang

@SoCal gunner this flavor wheel exercise is definitely helping me pick up stuff. May want to give it a shot before tackling the Rojas sticks.

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I've been following. I do want to give this a try (at least some of them), just for the experience.
A couple flavors I pick up in some cigars that I don't see on the wheel are what I think is anise (liquorice like after taste?) and what I always call "all-spice" (maybe its clove?).

When do you think you'll hit the Rojas?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SoCal gunner

I've been following. I do want to give this a try (at least some of them), just for the experience.
A couple flavors I pick up in some cigars that I don't see on the wheel are what I think is anise (liquorice like after taste?) and what I always call "all-spice" (maybe its clove?).

When do you think you'll hit the Rojas?

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I'm ready when you are, starting next week. Very busy weekend most likely.

Take your time. Do the tastings. Write some reviews to get you in the zone. I don't think I've ever read a review by you - let's hear about those NFG, EZ and great looking sticks of yours! The writing helps big time.

I occasionally get a “floral” or herbal taste from a few cigars, and no, they aren’t infused.

I see a wood & floral section, but I don’t associate what I taste with wood. The grassy doesn’t quite encompass it either. I call that hay.

A few of these are easier for me to name than others. Cedar is easy. Reminds me of the smell I get with sawn cedar I’ve experienced repairing my deck, or more familiar, the smell produced when sharpening a wooden pencil.

This is very interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nature

I occasionally get a “floral” or herbal taste from a few cigars, and no, they aren’t infused.

I see a wood & floral section, but I don’t associate what I taste with wood. The grassy doesn’t quite encompass it either. I call that hay.

A few of these are easier for me to name than others. Cedar is easy. Reminds me of the smell I get with sawn cedar I’ve experienced repairing my deck, or more familiar, the smell produced when sharpening a wooden pencil.

This is very interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Gonna have to sharpen some pencils and get a big whiff. Didn't think about that, and I didn't think I'd get to cedar, but will now. Excellent suggestion - I owe you some RG!

bump

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtubI...RlODBiNWFlZA==

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