Long Term Cigar Preservation ??

Seeking input on long term storage / preservation methods for cigars. I am seriously thinking about bedding down some CC & NC that respond well to long term aging. If TSHTF, then they will be more meaningful, good barter, or in the most likely scenario....allow me a couple really good smokes with a couple fingers of whiskey while I watch the fireworks.

Seriously.....how would you Bums go about....let's say a 10 year or longer program? What would you use as a humidor, humidification, where (underground?), shelves, racks, boxes, etc.? Is a "Fire & Forget" method even possible?

Honestly, I would go with a wineador. You get a great seal and temperature control. Steady RH+steady temps=care free aging. You could use coolers, but if you are looking at long term aging, IMO, it's worth the extra $ to have the temp control. Also, I use wireless hygrometers. Love the convenience of them.

I'd just buy boxes, open to inspect the cigars and throw the boxes in as is. If you are buying singles then I would get some good quality drawers. For humidification I would get 2-3 times the HCM or HF beads the calculators say just to make it as worry free as possible.

I have no idea but while I was reading your question this popped in my head.

What if you were to use a food saver to vacuum seal, say a box at a time, and leave a little air in there with a boveda pack? If they really are air tight then you won't lose any humidity. The Boveda would get the cigars to the RH that you want and keep them there. I imagine that 1 pack would last for years.

Again I have never even thought about this and would like to hear some other thoughts on this.

You would obviously still have to worry about temperature. I would think that storing them in a basement would make sure that they don't get too warm in the summer months.

Everything I have in long term storage is opened upon arrival then the box is wrapped in Saran Wrap. I believe in letting them "stew in their own brew". I use coolers as it is more economical and the seal is great. Some people like to do a bit of air exchange from time to time so if you prefer that then I would just close the box back up and store as usual. A lot of serious cigar collectors also keep the humidity in the 55 - 60 range. That will be up to preference.

Scott, ten years or more? Depending on what you're planning on putting away, they may have passed their peak by that time. Maybe you should plan on getting into them after three to five years, replacing with newer ones as necessary to keep plenty on hand for the next sharknado ... or whatever.

Same with the whiskey; it doesn't really age more once it comes out of the barrel. Might as well use and replenish, along with the cigars. Think of it as "rotating the stock" -- and checking to make sure it's still good, of course. I'd hate to think zombies (or neighbors) got into the bunker/time capsule when you weren't looking.

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Originally Posted by CamoSutra

Scott, ten years or more? Depending on what you're planning on putting away, they may have passed their peak by that time. Maybe you should plan on getting into them after three to five years, replacing with newer ones as necessary to keep plenty on hand for the next sharknado ... or whatever.

Same with the whiskey; it doesn't really age more once it comes out of the barrel. Might as well use and replenish, along with the cigars. Think of it as "rotating the stock" -- and checking to make sure it's still good, of course. I'd hate to think zombies (or neighbors) got into the bunker/time capsule when you weren't looking.

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That's ridiculous, everybody knows zombies don't smoke & I've seen two sharknadoes...not skeered there either. Whiskey keeps its integrity though, if sealed...right? I just bought a commercial vacuum sealer, and was thinking they could be sealed after a period of time at 65%. Not a doomsday guy at all, but serious about the "Fire & Forget" option. You mentioned "time capsule", yeah more on that order. No worries about neighbs getting into it. Plenty of claymores & punji pits to keep that from ever happening...JK. But is 3-5 years about the max you can rest one, even a CC, without it hitting the point of diminishing quality? I value the input, and it will keep me from just ruining good sticks, if it is not possible. Was seriously thinking that total oxygen depravation after they were stabilized at a lower fixed temperature could have possibilities.

Bury 'em

Cuban cigars will be fine at 10 years. Some non-Cuban cigars will be fine at that age. I have some clear Havanas that are 55+ years old and are still tasty cigars. As long as they are stored properly they will be fine.

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Originally Posted by Dreadedtrash

I have no idea but while I was reading your question this popped in my head.

What if you were to use a food saver to vacuum seal, say a box at a time, and leave a little air in there with a boveda pack? If they really are air tight then you won't lose any humidity. The Boveda would get the cigars to the RH that you want and keep them there. I imagine that 1 pack would last for years.

Again I have never even thought about this and would like to hear some other thoughts on this.

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Yeah, that's where I'm going with this, not huddled underground in a bunker, all pasty white, with a 5 foot beard. If I vacuum sealed (and I have a good one) at a certain RH, & they were kept at a constant temp, could they be preserved, and if so, would the maturation process continue, or go into stasis?

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Originally Posted by HabanoMan

Cuban cigars will be fine at 10 years. Some non-Cuban cigars will be fine at that age. I have some clear Havanas that are 55+ years old and are still tasty cigars. As long as they are stored properly they will be fine.

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How & in what way are they stored properly....especially for 55 years, & do they continuously get better?

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Originally Posted by Bowtech4ever

How & in what way are they stored properly....especially for 55 years, & do they continuously get better?

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Scott, to me stored properly would be in the 55 - 65 RH range and below 70 degrees. As far as the cigar improving I have no idea as I have no point of reference. I wasn't even alive when these were "fresh". I do have some stock that I bought that is 15 years or so in age and they are superb and considerably better than the same cigar at a younger age. 10 years is an excellent goal to set for aging stock. I would suggest that you smoke one every year or two and take notes. That way you can figure out the "peak" for that certain line. Then you will know if it is a cigar that is going to peak at 5 years or 7 years or, well you get the point. Most Cuban cigars will definitely stand up to some serious aging if stored in the acceptable conditions.

I saw a video where a guy was talking about long term aging 10-30 years (to be fair he was talking mostly about CC) I'll see if I can locate the videos after work tonight. It was very informative and had some science information, I'm not sure whether it was good science or not but it was an interesting watch. I'll edit my post here if I find that link.

Some cigars age better than others -- there are some sticks that may just be hitting their peaks after eight to ten years, and others that are pretty close to peak flavor when you get them. I'm sure you'll get recommendations on cigars to age for long periods.

But where's the fun in just putting them away and ignoring them? I'd rather experiment with different cigars, taste-testing them from time to time until you find the sweet spot for each one. This also lets you get rid of any ammonia build-up and inspect for mold and/or beetles. And what's the sense of ignoring a good bottle of booze? Consider it "quality control" -- making sure the distiller's efforts remain top-notch from one year to the next, or something like that.

Besides, your tastes might change over time, and you'll need to get rid of the old cigars and whiskey to make room for something else. Smoke, drink, replenish -- and maybe start a second cache along the way, so you can last even longer after the end of the world. :)

I've been aging cigars for a LONG time and have learned a few things. I wrote up a long detailed post some time ago, but I'll just list the specifics here.

1) If your aging long term you can do sealed or not sealed in their box. Sealed will take longer to notice the improvements on the stock, but it does produce smoother more flavorful stock. Almost like allowing them to stew in their own juices.
2) Don't mix cigar types. If you are aging Connecticut's don't keep them in the same box or even shelf as a maduro as the Connecticut will take on flavors of the maduro and ruin the subtle flavors
3) Maintain a constant RH. I use 65 beads in mine and haven't had any problems with mold or wrappers unraveling etc. I know guys who age at 70 without any problems so it's a matter of preference, but the key is to keep the RH constant and only open your humi when you need to.
4) The best aging device by far is a wine cooler / beverage cooler to maintain constant temps if your home has temp swings. For me my cigars are stored in a part of the home that doesn't fluctuate much so I have a large beverage cooler that's never plugged in. Plus it helps that the temps outside don't fluctuate too much during the year.
5) Full body dark wrappers age the best as cigars will lose a good amount of strength over the years. So if you prefer stronger cigars with a good amount of N Kick don't let them rest beyond 6 years. If you prefer medium body 8-10 and light smooth flavorful cigars 10 years or more. I just smoked a RASS from an 05 box and sad to say they have passed their prime. These where smoking great last year and the year before, but now it's just too long. However I have some 12 year BBF's that could still use a few years.
6) If you are not aging sealed boxes open each box at least once or twice a year to allow some air exchange. This will help the ammonia release from the box and improve the taste faster.

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Originally Posted by LGHT

I've been aging cigars for a LONG time and have learned a few things. I wrote up a long detailed post some time ago, but I'll just list the specifics here.

1) If your aging long term you can do sealed or not sealed in their box. Sealed will take longer to notice the improvements on the stock, but it does produce smoother more flavorful stock. Almost like allowing them to stew in their own juices.
2) Don't mix cigar types. If you are aging Connecticut's don't keep them in the same box or even shelf as a maduro as the Connecticut will take on flavors of the maduro and ruin the subtle flavors
3) Maintain a constant RH. I use 65 beads in mine and haven't had any problems with mold or wrappers unraveling etc. I know guys who age at 70 without any problems so it's a matter of preference, but the key is to keep the RH constant and only open your humi when you need to.
4) The best aging device by far is a wine cooler / beverage cooler to maintain constant temps if your home has temp swings. For me my cigars are stored in a part of the home that doesn't fluctuate much so I have a large beverage cooler that's never plugged in. Plus it helps that the temps outside don't fluctuate too much during the year.
5) Full body dark wrappers age the best as cigars will lose a good amount of strength over the years. So if you prefer stronger cigars with a good amount of N Kick don't let them rest beyond 6 years. If you prefer medium body 8-10 and light smooth flavorful cigars 10 years or more. I just smoked a RASS from an 05 box and sad to say they have passed their prime. These where smoking great last year and the year before, but now it's just too long. However I have some 12 year BBF's that could still use a few years.
6) If you are not aging sealed boxes open each box at least once or twice a year to allow some air exchange. This will help the ammonia release from the box and improve the taste faster.

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@LGHT , very much appreciated! This and several other responses, gives me a good starting place and course to follow. 1st. on the list will be a quality wine cooler (common denominator)...a well constructed and insulated one. I want to get it set up and proven before adding cigars.

Excellent comments by "LGHT" . . .

The ideal humidity to store your cigars is between 70% - 75% humidity. Ideally it is best to put your cigars in cedar boxes to enhance the flavor of tobacco over a period of time - the longer the better. This works great if you have a humidor large enough to handle storing your cigars within their own boxes. This permits the cigar to breathe.

I personally believe that cigars should be kept at 72 - 73% RH and 70 F or you WILL ruin them over the long term. Certainly there is some variation (short term) allowed of +/- 2 (degs and %).

Tobacco should be kept at a relative humidity that just keeps the leaves pliable without swelling them. Pliability is based on the interaction of the membranes with the air surrounding them, *relative humidity*, not absolute moisture content is what's important. I used to believe that “absolute” moisture control s/b used but have come over to the “relative” humidity over the years.

Ideally, the correct point is 70-73% regardless of temperature per some cigar experts. 70% relative humidity cigar leaves become pliable without swelling. At 75% or higher, the cells begin to swell. At 68% or lower, they can become brittle. These points are regardless of the ambient temperature or the absolute moisture content.

Aging cigars is similar to aging wine. Cigars can be aged for as long as ten to twenty years although personally, I’ve not had much success past 5 years. Without keeping them in their “box”, it is a futile endeavor b/c they loose their flavor sitting in the open. Some tobacco will not age at all while some will have their flavors enhanced.

One more piece of advice: although a plastic container is okay for short term storage, it will not permit the cigar to age. It can actually cause over-humidification because the moisture has no place to go but into the cigar. Also wineadors are not good either b/c the cigar can’t age in “metal”. Most experts say it s/b cedar.

If you keep your cigars at 70% relative humidity and 70 degrees F, that’s good for SHORT term storage but for long (10 year) term, they'll dry out! To combat this, get a decent “cedar” humidor, keep the cigars at 70F, charge the humidifier in the humidor regularly, keep the RH at 73% and don’t let it get to high.

Many cigar manufacturers roll their cigars at room temperature and about 72% relative humidity. At this level of temperature and humidity, the cigar is allowed to equalize in moisture content, to slowly, ever so slowly, dry down. Some experts say that 70F and 72% humidity will keep cigars over time and 73% humidity will keep cigars perfect forever.

Many use a wineador b/c it has built-in temperature control and somewhat better insulation. Most large cedar humidors (not small table-top versions) do not have temperature control. It’s not that difficult to add a Thermoelectric Cooler (TEC) to end up with the best of both worlds; cedar and temperature control.

Depending on where you live, you MAY have to add a dehumidifier to control the excess moisture from ambient weather conditions. In San Diego, there are three months of high humidity will “drown” the cigars if left untreated.

Nvm... going to retract my statement.

Only thing I will add is that if you use HF beads....not all humidors are equal. I recently converted a mini fridge to use just for cc storage. Based on the size, I should have used 1.5lbs of beads. I bought 2 lbs of 60% beads to be on the safe side. With just a few mists of water the RH was up over 73%. Then I realized, there's no wood in there other than the cigar boxes so it doesn't need as much media. I now have 6, 62% boveda packs in there and no beads and humidity is holding steady at 63%. Once I get some wooden shelves for it and maybe some additional cedar to take up some space, I will probably attempt to use the beads again. Just a little FYI

As far as the cooler / winecooler option I should have mentioned mine has a good amount of wood boxes and in addition I have cedar sheets and liners and a good collection of cedar "blocks" that were used as fillers for some boxes when cigars didn't take up all the space. This really helps me maintain RH and allows the beads to wick moisture as needed. I'm too cheap to splurge for those fancy cedar shelves, but i'm sure those would help also.

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Originally Posted by JimF

Excellent comments by "LGHT" . . .

The ideal humidity to store your cigars is between 70% - 75% humidity. Ideally it is best to put your cigars in cedar boxes to enhance the flavor of tobacco over a period of time - the longer the better. This works great if you have a humidor large enough to handle storing your cigars within their own boxes. This permits the cigar to breathe.

I personally believe that cigars should be kept at 72 - 73% RH and 70 F or you WILL ruin them over the long term. Certainly there is some variation (short term) allowed of +/- 2 (degs and %).

Tobacco should be kept at a relative humidity that just keeps the leaves pliable without swelling them. Pliability is based on the interaction of the membranes with the air surrounding them, *relative humidity*, not absolute moisture content is what's important. I used to believe that “absolute” moisture control s/b used but have come over to the “relative” humidity over the years.

Ideally, the correct point is 70-73% regardless of temperature per some cigar experts. 70% relative humidity cigar leaves become pliable without swelling. At 75% or higher, the cells begin to swell. At 68% or lower, they can become brittle. These points are regardless of the ambient temperature or the absolute moisture content.

Aging cigars is similar to aging wine. Cigars can be aged for as long as ten to twenty years although personally, I’ve not had much success past 5 years. Without keeping them in their “box”, it is a futile endeavor b/c they loose their flavor sitting in the open. Some tobacco will not age at all while some will have their flavors enhanced.

One more piece of advice: although a plastic container is okay for short term storage, it will not permit the cigar to age. It can actually cause over-humidification because the moisture has no place to go but into the cigar. Also wineadors are not good either b/c the cigar can’t age in “metal”. Most experts say it s/b cedar.

If you keep your cigars at 70% relative humidity and 70 degrees F, that’s good for SHORT term storage but for long (10 year) term, they'll dry out! To combat this, get a decent “cedar” humidor, keep the cigars at 70F, charge the humidifier in the humidor regularly, keep the RH at 73% and don’t let it get to high.

Many cigar manufacturers roll their cigars at room temperature and about 72% relative humidity. At this level of temperature and humidity, the cigar is allowed to equalize in moisture content, to slowly, ever so slowly, dry down. Some experts say that 70F and 72% humidity will keep cigars over time and 73% humidity will keep cigars perfect forever.

Many use a wineador b/c it has built-in temperature control and somewhat better insulation. Most large cedar humidors (not small table-top versions) do not have temperature control. It’s not that difficult to add a Thermoelectric Cooler (TEC) to end up with the best of both worlds; cedar and temperature control.

Depending on where you live, you MAY have to add a dehumidifier to control the excess moisture from ambient weather conditions. In San Diego, there are three months of high humidity will “drown” the cigars if left untreated.

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Would have to disagree with much of this post. Many, many cigar collectors store at around 55% humidity and temps in the 60s. That is their preference for long term storage.

I have lots of cigars aging in coolers. They are aging just fine in there. Also, opinions vary on cigars "marrying". I for one have never noticed a difference but that is pretty much up to the individual. I also have quite a few aging in ziploc bags instead of boxes. Again, they are aging just fine.

I would be terrified of mold at 73% humidity. To me that is just begging for problems.

"Would have to disagree with much of this post. Many, many cigar collectors store at around 55% humidity and temps in the 60s. That is their preference for long term storage." . . that may be their preference but at that RH, the cigars will be lifeless!

"I would be terrified of mold at 73% humidity. To me that is just begging for problems." . . . never had a critter . . in all my years. It takes high temps like 80F *and* RH (78%) to get critters. And even then it's not certain.

I can't imagine a cigar aged at 55% RH . . it's has to be "dead"!!

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Originally Posted by JimF

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I can't imagine a cigar aged at 55% RH . . it's has to be "dead"!!

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That seems a bit extreme to me too. Bet there aren't any burn problems though [emoji3]

One other thought . . .

If the cigar manufacturers thought the "plastic" was good for their cigars . . . then why all all "quality" cigars packaged in a cedar box?? Don't you think they're telling you something??

Apparently these are not "quality cigars"

http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/...pssrytmenl.jpg

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Originally Posted by JimF

"Would have to disagree with much of this post. Many, many cigar collectors store at around 55% humidity and temps in the 60s. That is their preference for long term storage." . . that may be their preference but at that RH, the cigars will be lifeless!

"I would be terrified of mold at 73% humidity. To me that is just begging for problems." . . . never had a critter . . in all my years. It takes high temps like 80F *and* RH (78%) to get critters. And even then it's not certain.

I can't imagine a cigar aged at 55% RH . . it's has to be "dead"!!

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I have a few thousand cigars stored at 60% RH that are far from dead...

The British would typically store their cigars in the mid 50s, as Don suggested. That is far closer to the historic norm.

The most serious arguments now have to do with air exchange. Lots of Far Eastern collectors completely seal their cigars for long term aging. I'm talking about multiple decades, and using modern plastics to seal.

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Originally Posted by Billb1960

Apparently these are not "quality cigars"

http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/...pssrytmenl.jpg

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These either

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...cture004-2.jpg

But then what do I know? Like Bob I only have a few thousand cigars laying around going "dead". :confused:

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Originally Posted by HabanoMan

These either

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...cture004-2.jpg

But then what do I know? Like Bob I only have a few thousand cigars laying around going "dead". :confused:

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Well I don't, and I think that's an awesome shot......drooooool. :applause::encouragement:

Good thread. I'm thinking about buying a box or 2 of CC's to age. I'm thinking maybe a cab of Bolivar BBF, not sure about the second one if I go with two.

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Originally Posted by Sigaar

Good thread. I'm thinking about buying a box or 2 of CC's to age. I'm thinking maybe a cab of Bolivar BBF, not sure about the second one if I go with two.

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There are plenty of great Havanas that smoke well fresh. If I were just getting started, I would try some of the Corona or Petite Coronas.

Bolivars are great cigars, by the way. If you want a pyramid, hard to beat a BBF.

Worry about aging after you've smoked a few hundred.

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Originally Posted by Bpegler

There are plenty of great Havanas that smoke well fresh. If I were just getting started, I would try some of the Corona or Petite Coronas.

Bolivars are great cigars, by the way. If you want a pyramid, hard to beat a BBF.

Worry about aging after you've smoked a few hundred.

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What Bob said.

Also, come to the Habanos section and ask questions before your first purchase. Plenty of helpful brothers there that will help steer you in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Bpegler

Bolivars are great cigars, by the way. If you want a pyramid, hard to beat a BBF.

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Give Sancho Panza Belicosos a try if you like a good pyramid. I have an 01 box that I'm smoking from and they are hands down a suburb smoke right now. Sadly the BBF's from 00 could still use a few years of age.

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Originally Posted by LGHT

Sadly the BBF's from 00 could still use a few years of age.

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Is this from a flavor standpoint or do they need to "loosen" up a bit due to construction?
I agree on the Sanchos. Great Belis IMO.

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Originally Posted by HabanoMan

Is this from a flavor standpoint or do they need to "loosen" up a bit due to construction?
I agree on the Sanchos. Great Belis IMO.

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Flavor standpoint. Has great flavor and really holds up to long term aging, but they are still a bit harsh and aggressive to me.