Some questions from a frustrated newbie

I set aside some time after lunch today to enjoy a Sam Leccia White that sparky426 sent me. Usually I smoke cigars after dinner, but the kids were at a visitation with their mom, and the forecast said rain starting at 5 pm. So, here are my questions:

1) It was really windy. My house is shaped somewhat like a U, with my outdoor table in the crook of the U, so I wasn't getting too much wind, but it was windy. My lighter (Xikar ELX) was having issues too. Do any of y'all smoke outdoors in windy conditions?

2) I had to relight the thing three times. It was also tunneling, which was apparent because I used my pocket knife to knock off as much loose ash as possible, and the wrapper was unburned a good 1/4" past where the loose ash was inside the cigar. My OXOdor is at a steady 68-69%, so it shouldn't be over-humidified. I take my puffs roughly every 30 seconds. Perhaps this was because of the windy conditions?

3) I may look into getting an ashtray and smoking in my spare garage. It's an empty two-car garage (well, empty of cars. Plenty of shelves and assorted junk in there, hehe), so that will eliminate any environmental issues.

Thoughts?

If it was windy enough to affect the lighter it was probably windy enough to affect the cigar. It could have even been a dud cigar as well.

How long had you had the cigar before smoking it? Perhaps the rh had not yet settled??? Certainly wind could have been a factor, but I have enjoyed many a successful smoke out on windy days at the golf course and have not had a problem. I have some cheap Obsidian Blacks that have a tunneling problem and I smoke in windless conditions. I'm just going to let them set for a few months and see if they improve any. Also, Horseshoe could be right and you simply got a dud cigar. Happens with even some of the best. Unfortunately, this hobby we imbibe in is not an exact science. You can do everything right and still end up with a dud.

Horseshoe: I thought my lighter was running low on fuel at first (the level was below the bottom of the fuel window) but when I got back inside the lighter worked just fine.

UncleFesterESQ: I've had it for five days. How long does it take for a cigar to acclimate?

Unfortunately, this hobby we imbibe in is not an exact science.

WHAT THAT'S NOT WHAT I KEEP HEARING...("this is settled science") am I to believe the President or a CIGAR BUM???????????? CIGAR BUM FOR SUREhttp://www.cigarbum.com/forum/images/smilies/pipe_smiley.gif

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Originally Posted by Zeede

UncleFesterESQ: I've had it for five days. How long does it take for a cigar to acclimate?

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My understanding is that it takes 1 week to see a 1% change in cigar rh acclimation. Without running a bunch of pre-tests on the entry level rh point of the cigar to it's new environment, I think most would be close at the 1-2 month point. AGAIN.... whether or not this was the problem is almost impossible to say. I have smoked plenty of cigars ROTT and had very enjoyable experiences. You said you were gifted this cigar. How long had the previous owner had it? So many factors... so many cigars to smoke.

:stogie:

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Originally Posted by unclefesteresq

my understanding is that it takes 1 week to see a 1% change in cigar rh acclimation. Without running a bunch of pre-tests on the entry level rh point of the cigar to it's new environment, i think most would be close at the 1-2 month point. Again.... Whether or not this was the problem is almost impossible to say. I have smoked plenty of cigars rott and had very enjoyable experiences. You said you were gifted this cigar. How long had the previous owner had it? So many factors... So many cigars to smoke.

:stogie:

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now see>>>>this is why this place is so great>>>>info you get nowhere else.....i learn so much here every day>>>>

I JUST WISH I COULD DO MORE THAN JUST THANK YOU ALL....FOR THE INFO YOU PUT FORTH....

I'm still a noob at this too so take my advice as it is. I've had the odd tunneling issue, usually on cold windy nights but I think it's usually related to smoking too fast vs the wind itself. I try to keep it to a puff sequence a minute, especially when windy because that seems to create a drag on the cigar itself. Smoking in the wind (which there always is here) has caused uneven burns for me but that's about the only issue. If I had the opportunity to set up an inside place to smoke I'd be all over that right away. Nice to sit outside on the nice days but winter's here suck. Just another noobs 2 cents worth.

A number of factors could be at play here or combination thereof.
Being where I live, I contend with the wind frequently.
Usually, the wind causes the opposite; the wrapper, particularly on one side, burns faster than the core and becomes lopsided.

• Could be humidity? Many here prefer to store cigars at lower RH than 68-69. I Keep mine more around 64-66, and sometimes a bit lower. In some eyes, 68-69 is too high. You just need to find what is right for you.
• If it was kept at a lower humidity prior and you have been storing at 68-69, there could be a greater differential between the core and the wrapper/binder leaves resulting in tunneling. Maybe it wasn't quite acclimated/even in RH yet. I don't know how long you've had this cigar in your possession. A rule of thumb often stated is 1% in RH per week acclimation rate.
• Prematurely knocking the ash off could also cause uneven burning. The ash acts as a buffer and insulator for burning temperature.
• A puff every 30 seconds or so seems a bit fast which could also result in uneven burning issues. Again, more experience will guide you to the optimum rate, which may vary from cigar-cigar or conditions. A guideline is one puff every minute (with some variability in what is defined as a "puff".)
• OR, it could just be the cigar specimen. :confused:

Don't get too frustrated though, there's always another cigar! :stogie:

Wind'll do that.

Wind is never a friend to the cigar smoker IMHO. A breeze, maybe, but even then it can cause all kinds of burn issues. Something that I find helps a lot if you *must* smoke in the wind is that the small the rg, the better the stick seems to fair.

Yep, strong wind is a no-go here unless a car is an option. Too disruptive.

I'd go in the garage. I love smoking in mine. If it's really windy I just open the door a couple feet and it still gets enough ventilation.

Ahem...ahem......i am said donor of the leccia white. It is an original release that i had a fiver of. I keep my sticks quite a bit lower at the 64-66% and at about 62*. They were shipped the same day as boxed. I didn't have any burn issues with the other four but that was a while back. Are you saying you need a replacement 😈

"Look at this razor sharp burn line, it's just perfect," said no one ever who smoked a cigar when it is windy outside.

Hey folks!

Thanks for all of the helpful responses! I will try smoking in the garage next time to eliminate the wind factor.

I've read that you shouldn't take a huge drag like cigarette smokers do, more like a moderate sip, like on a straw. I also found that doing so only once a minute was letting the cigar go out. Any idea why?

You might want to try a fuller, longer, draw. Often times I even double puff.
Could be that a partial draw isn't enough to keep the cigar ignited through the entire thickness? I dunno.
Sometimes we overthink this stuff. Relax and keep it enjoyable. The rhythm will come.

sparky426: No, a replacement is not needed :)

Nature: Yeah, I've noticed that if it's burning well, then I get some residual smoke coming out of both the foot and the punched head when I take the cigar away from my lips.

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Originally Posted by Zeede

sparky426: Yes, replacements are needed.

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Ok I fixed it. Guess time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Zeede

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I've read that you shouldn't take a huge drag like cigarette smokers do, more like a moderate sip, like on a straw. I also found that doing so only once a minute was letting the cigar go out. Any idea why?

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Your questions were impeccably answered, but here is a thought to consider.

Cigars stored at around 70% are prone to burn issues. (going "out" and tasting bitter)

Cigars stored at 65% will continue burning more readily.

Small gauge cigars stored at 65% are easier to "overheat" than what you are probably used to, so watch out for that. (If we overheat a cigar, the flavors will typically change for the worse)

Cigars stored at 60%, even more so. Those are the ones (especially petite coronas/ lanceros about 40r.g.) that we must carefully sip so as to not overheat them.


I second all of Marks responses including the fuller longer draw, especially for larger gauge cigars that already burn cooler than small gauge cigars. (50, 52, 54 etc)

While letting the cigar rest between puffs, you might want to try holding it like a pen, somewhat close (approximately 3/4" to 1") to the (burning) foot. This way one can monitor the temperature of our cigar and develop a surprisingly accurate sense of if we are smoking it too fast (too hot) or, too slow (so cool we can perceive that it is about to go out)

Best wishes, Dafiddla

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Originally Posted by sparky426

Ok I fixed it. Guess time will tell.

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Please let me work through some of the other TWELVE cigars you bombed me with, or one of the five Kayla bombed me with, or maybe the Padron I actually bought for myself first!

fiddlegrin: I will try slowing it down more but doing a longer draw, or maybe multiple draws. Weird that all the newbie guides say 70% RH and 70 F.

The 70, 70 rule is easy to remember so everyone uses it as a baseline for noobs. I think after a while of personal experience you will find what works best for you. Mine stay between 65% and 68% depending on which shelf and which hygrometer I read. The humi itself doesnt fluctuate just my impeccable equipment shows a difference. The old man that got me started in this hobby 30 years ago taught me a few things. If you puff too fast it overheats and can cause a sulfur taste. Same thing if you puff too strong. Those are both changed by the size both rg and length. As you smoke the oils from the tobacco are drawn out and accumulate in the unburned portion of the cigar and that is what typically causes the good flavor profile changes. Smoking too hot will cause the oils to burn rather than evaporate and condense back on the leaf. It is usually a fine line between too hot and too cold but with practice you will get to the point you know exactly how to work the stick you are currently burning. The last thing he taught me was never hurry a cigar if you have 30 minutes and want a smoke but cant go past 30 mins you should probably wait till you have more time. Cigars are a leisure experience to relax with a good drink and good conversation. (I dont talk to myself while smoking my cigars no matter what anyone says)

I've found that the 70/70 rule is too warm and too humid. Almost all the cigars I've had burn issues with were higher than 65% humidity. I recently discovered because my wineador has solid bottom drawers that it was a lot more humid at the bottom than the top (63% on top, 70% on bottom) and had to move stuff around to fix it. The cigars I've smoked that were in the bottom the longest have had some burn issues, the ones that were in there shorter times and the ones from the top burned perfectly...

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Originally Posted by sparky426

Ahem...ahem......i am said donor of the leccia white. It is an original release that i had a fiver of. I keep my sticks quite a bit lower at the 64-66% and at about 62*. They were shipped the same day as boxed. I didn't have any burn issues with the other four but that was a while back. Are you saying you need a replacement 😈

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This may be over thinking it, but if the cigar were acclimated at ~65% and then only given a few days at 69% it could be that the wrapper was at a higher rH than the filler, which would exacerbate the uneven burn. The wind probably didn't help, either.

I've found it takes some experimentation to get my puff technique right. Play with both how long and how hard you puff to find something that works well. At first I was puffing too hard and found that my cigars would go from harsh tasting to going out with little in between. A short puff with a lighter, longer draw has given me more flavors and fewer burn issues. YMMV, of course and it probably depends a lot on RG (I have mostly 50-54 RG cigars).

Well it looks like the only thing I'm doing right is taking the time to smoke them slowly. The three cigars I've smoked since I kept track were smoked for an hour, 90 minutes and an hour, respectively.

I think I'll ask my local B&M for more sheets of Spanish cedar to put in my little OXOdor. That'll lower the RH a bit in the short term and stabilize it better too.

What are you using for humidification? Adding cedar sheets may only lower it for a little bit until they become acclimated.

A Boveda pack.

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Originally Posted by Zeede

A Boveda pack.

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Adding some cedar can't hurt, but the boveda will just eventually get it back to the RH% it's set at. I would grab a couple 65% bovedas and see how the cigars perform after they've become acclimated to that.

Yeah, I just looked and saw that it is a 72% Boveda pack. I have a 69% pack double bagged that I will sub in after the RH gets back up to those levels (Opening the OXOdor and putting in two sheets of cedar has dropped the RH).

I have a few of those OXO containers that I use as well. I really just toss a boveda or two in each and leave them. I don't even check the rh on them as they are about as airtight as it gets. I use 65% packs, but thats just me.

The larger ones work great for large RG sticks.

Don't forget, you can coat your cedar trays, boxes, sheets, or lids with 100% distilled and a virgin applicator, and get that RH up REAL quick.
Then, the Bovedas work to bring things down, rather than bring things UP.....

I think the whole '1 puff a minute' thing is overthinking things entirely. I've known guys that love to smoke their sticks napalm hot: I used to smoke with a guy who would literally do 2 to my 1. I'm quite a slow smoker by comparison, and I don't care if I have to apply a fresh match to an almost extinguished cigar because of it.

Sounds to me like you have a stick with a crappy burn. Happens to us all, and I generally just forget about it and move on...

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Originally Posted by bobajob

I think the whole '1 puff a minute' thing is overthinking things entirely.

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I don't agree. When people say that they're saying that most find that taking approximately one puff per minute keeps the cigar cool enough to avoid getting harsh yet still allows it to continue burning. There are all sorts of variables that will change the optimal time between puffs (rH, puff "technique," ambient conditions, RG, etc.), but it's a good starting point. Without some sort of guidance you just end up answering the question of, "How fast should you smoke?" with, "Whatever works best for you," which isn't an answer, it's just restating the question, which is useless.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the best way to smoke is to use a stop watch and take a puff exactly every 60 seconds and that it's obvious that there will be a lot of variation. However, more often than not, people find that they get the best results when taking a puff about once a minute or so. That's very useful information when you don't know if the best way is to puff every 5 seconds or every 5 minutes. It really narrows down the time frame for experimentation.

I am guilty of having a stopwatch going! Although, partly it was because otherwise I would have no reference of how frequently I was puffing, and partly to time the total amount of time it took to smoke the cigar.

I will go with longer, slower and less frequent draws on the next one :)

Put the watch away and relax its all good! Don't over think this Enjoy it every chance you get.

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Originally Posted by fiddlegrin

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While letting the cigar rest between puffs, you might want to try holding it like a pen, somewhat close (approximately 3/4" to 1") to the (burning) foot. This way one can monitor the temperature of our cigar and develop a surprisingly accurate sense of if we are smoking it too fast (too hot) or, too slow (so cool we can perceive that it is about to go out)

Best wishes, Dafiddla

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I smoked a robusto yesterday and noticed that I was actually holding it like a pen about 1/2" from the cherry to monitor temperature.