21 is the new 18???

So I check half wheel pretty regularly, and I've noticed that more often than not the latest news involves towns raising their minimum age for tobacco purchases to 21. These regulations usually involve controlling ejuice and flavored cigars as well. It gets me thinking; like how is this relevant to anyone's life? Who stays up worrying about 20 year Olds buying butts? Or grape swishers? Meanwhile these same towns are busy licensing marijuana dispensaries. I begrudge nobody their bud, but sometimes this just seems silly. Tobacco is not a health food, I get that, but it seems to be everybody's whipping boy these days.

I've never been cool with arming young men and women to go kill and/or be killed in our defense, yet not allowing them to drink when they come back home. This is just plain stupid, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Tobias Lutz

I've never been cool with arming young men and women to go kill and/or be killed in our defense, yet not allowing them to drink when they come back home. This is just plain stupid, IMO.

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I completely agree with you on this!

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Originally Posted by Tobias Lutz

I've never been cool with arming young men and women to go kill and/or be killed in our defense, yet not allowing them to drink when they come back home. This is just plain stupid, IMO.

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Exactly! You can legally buy a gun, and borrow half a million dollars to mortgage a house, get married and have children, but you are not old enough to buy a Padron???

Bill it's not smoke it's idiot repellant!

Ive been watching this all my life, and thank god it's not my problem anymore...its the political corrects problem now and Im enjoying watching them go nuts. they are finally so far gone they are penalizing each others kids for the joy of inflecting some control over some others......

Economics trumps freedom, every time.

My Masters on the brain is showing. I thought this thread would be about Jordan Spieth's win at age 21, and 1st of 18 majors to go. lol.

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Originally Posted by RogueBallBoy

So I check half wheel pretty regularly, and I've noticed that more often than not the latest news involves towns raising their minimum age for tobacco purchases to 21. These regulations usually involve controlling ejuice and flavored cigars as well. It gets me thinking; like how is this relevant to anyone's life? Who stays up worrying about 20 year Olds buying butts? Or grape swishers? Meanwhile these same towns are busy licensing marijuana dispensaries. I begrudge nobody their bud, but sometimes this just seems silly. Tobacco is not a health food, I get that, but it seems to be everybody's whipping boy these days.

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Well, of course they always have a "valid" reason. And for this it's because 18 yr. olds may still buy cigars (and beer) for minors, whereas 21 yr. olds are less likely to do so. And I agree, so much better we become a zombie nation with the other stuff. Odd indeed.

Alot of provinces up here have actually started attempting banning flavored smokes all together (primetime's, honey times, menthol cigs etc...) saying that they're flavored to entice younger people to start smoking. Makes you mad when you hear things like this. I used to really enjoy a menthol especially when I has a sore throat.

Im tired of having our freedoms taken away because its in our "best interest." Let people make their own choices and live with it. This whole thing is more geared at cigarettes and blunts than cigars though. Cigars are just getting lumped in. I had my first cigar at 16 but I don't know a lot of people that age that smoke them. The younger crowd is usually more about their Bud light and marlboro reds.

Bud light and marlboro reds....rice beer and imitation hops while you smoke floor sweepings...that is just so cool.

What it comes down to is an attempt at control and shaping choices. The thought is that if the "kids" can be held off for just a few more years to legally purchase tobacco products, then they may be less likely to start up.
See report Here:
Public Health Implications of Raising the Minimum Age of Legal Access to Tobacco Products
We all know and have seen how unbiased and the solid evidence based science the FDA has used. (sarcasm)

This is just false logic.
Can't say that having an age of 21 to purchase alcoholic beverages has stopped many from consuming later on. A legal drinking age of 21 is at least somewhat understandable due to the consequences of impairment. But 21 for tobacco products? And as stated prior, I think this is being targeted at cigarettes but cigars are just being caught in the net.

:cowpoop: :banghead:

It's all about imagery and the perception that an entity that goes after tobacco is somehow more compassionate and more worthy of your money and votes than another entity the allows adults the freedom to make their own choices. They're just looking out for you and the kids right? That's a big thing here in California that can persuade the populace to actually vote to raise taxes, because if you don't, the Kids will suffer and there'll be on police on the streets, etc...

It doesn't even compute to these people that want to control your every decision in life, that a person of a certain age is legally capable of so many things the privilege of adulthood brings, but cannot partake in other far less consequential things somebody 366 days older can....

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Originally Posted by Engineer99

It's all about imagery and the perception that an entity that goes after tobacco is somehow more compassionate and more worthy of your money and votes than another entity the allows adults the freedom to make their own choices. They're just looking out for you and the kids right? That's a big thing here in California that can persuade the populace to actually vote to raise taxes, because if you don't, the Kids will suffer and there'll be on police on the streets, etc...

It doesn't even compute to these people that want to control your every decision in life, that a person of a certain age is legally capable of so many things the privilege of adulthood brings, but cannot partake in other far less consequential things somebody 366 days older can....

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So right. When young death's something that happens to others,the oldies. So perhaps caution is indicated when drinking AND driving. But tobacco? Whem fourteen, I could buy cigarettes over the counter at Midtown Drugs anytime.Hell,it was a Drug Store.After a couple of packs of Chesterfields or sweet Caporal,I quit cigarettes for good. Never a problem when I started smoking cigars daily three years later.Once into Cigars have just kept on keepin on these sixty three years.

Tobacco, Christianity, and guns are the new whipping boys of the 21st century. Its a shame to see this being allowed even if I agree with stopping the underage crowd but as I see it, "old enough to vote and old enough to die for our country. Then old enough to be allowed to live and indulge in our country as well."

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After falling off the priority list last year, a proposal to raise the minimum age to purchase tobacco products to 21-years-old in Amherst, Mass. came back for consideration this spring. While it’s now a priority for the town’s board of health, opposing the proposal doesn’t appear to be a priority for any of the town’s residents as no one showed up to speak against it at a community meeting on Thursday.

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TOBACCO PURCHASE AGE INCREASE APPEARS TO HAVE GO-AHEAD IN AMHERST, MASS.

Without public opposition, these new laws increasing the age to purchase tobacco products, and any other anti-tobacco legislation are being passed on greased wheels.

The drinking age in MA, and elsewhere, is 21, and I can't imagine there is none of that going on at the colleges except for possibly of-age seniors. With the extension to tobacco, the fake id business is just going to proliferate even more. And sadly, those who do imbibe, and get caught, will technically be criminals.

I just wonder if people who actually do wait 'til age 21 to have their very first drink (or tobacco product), then go overboard with their new found liberty, or actually have gained the maturity to not overindulge, or even not try anything then at all.

......... probably better left unsaid.

Yeah, I think the flavored cigar makers are the stick that initially poked the hornets nest. The alcohol industry has taken their cue with marshmallow flavored vodka, liquor-infused whipped cream and such, but I don't hear the outcry as loud about that, or a push to restrict its marketing and/or display as is proposed for tobacco.

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Originally Posted by HIM

Im tired of having our freedoms taken away because its in our "best interest." Let people make their own choices and live with it. This whole thing is more geared at cigarettes and blunts than cigars though. Cigars are just getting lumped in. I had my first cigar at 16 but I don't know a lot of people that age that smoke them. The younger crowd is usually more about their Bud light and marlboro reds.

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Once it becomes accepted that the government is the provider of all things including the basic necessities then accepting the fact that you must live by whatever rules they establish is simple.

When The People Fear Their Government, THERE IS TYRANNY;
When the Government fears the People, There is Liberty.

As I get older, my "ideal" minimum drinking age goes up. Right now it's at about 40. But my other fantasy rule is that everyone is required to start drinking at 40 :)

Yeah, I've noticed the gradual push to raise the minimum smoking age to 21. That's just as ridiculous as my drinking age rules. Kids are going to smoke. Now we're just forcing it "underground" and teaching them to disrespect the law that much more.

I love when people talk crap about smokers here in NY...

I ask them how they like their kids schools, roads, property taxes and income taxes (trust me taxes are already high).

Because if smoking were gone in NY, school and infrastructure funding would plummet, bunch of layoffs, while taxes would go way up.

Last I heard, NYS profits more from tobacco sales in NY than all of major tobacco. Trust me, they have zero plan (other than tax hikes and slash spending) on how they would make up the difference in the budget. IIRC, they make around $600 million.

I imagine sugar and caffeine to be next on the list to regulate.....

I can not argue with any of the logic regarding liberties, the unjustness of being old enough to die for your country and a myriad of other issues. However, when it comes to premuim handmade cigars the 18-26 year old is not a significant part of the consumer base. Granted there are some young connoisseurs of fine cigars who are extremely passionate, but as a rule it is not a market segment we seek. Simply put, very very few young adult consumers can afford to buy handmade cigars with any regularity.

I do not know the official position of the CRA, CAA or anyone in regards to this matter. But personally, while the libertarian in me dislikes any more rules or regulations, I do believe age increases to 21 is one that will not have a significant impact to the handmade cigar segment.

The really big issue is getting the federal government to recognize that not all tobacco is the same and that here needs to be a standalone classification for premium handmade cigars so we stop getting lumped into any broad based tobacco legislation.

STS

ps: I strongly encourage every retailer and consumer to become a member of the CRA. If all you ever do is pay your annual dues, you are helping to protect all of our interests in handmade cigars. Please consider it - thanks.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

Bud light and marlboro reds....rice beer and imitation hops while you smoke floor sweepings...that is just so cool.

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Hey! It might be rice beer and imitation hops, but that's MY rice beer and imitation hops!! Bud Light 4ever!!!

jk - being from St Louis I feel I need to defend "our" beer even if I don't like it.

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Originally Posted by ssaka

I can not argue with any of the logic regarding liberties, the unjustness of being old enough to die for your country and a myriad of other issues. However, when it comes to premuim handmade cigars the 18-26 year old is not a significant part of the consumer base. Granted there are some young connoisseurs of fine cigars who are extremely passionate, but as a rule it is not a market segment we seek. Simply put, very very few young adult consumers can afford to buy handmade cigars with any regularity.

I do not know the official position of the CRA, CAA or anyone in regards to this matter. But personally, while the libertarian in me dislikes any more rules or regulations, I do believe age increases to 21 is one that will not have a significant impact to the handmade cigar segment.

The really big issue is getting the federal government to recognize that not all tobacco is the same and that here needs to be a standalone classification for premium handmade cigars so we stop getting lumped into any broad based tobacco legislation.

STS

ps: I strongly encourage every retailer and consumer to become a member of the CRA. If all you ever do is pay your annual dues, you are helping to protect all of our interests in handmade cigars. Please consider it - thanks.

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You need to remember that what happens to other parts of the tobacco industry WILL trickle down to the cigar markets.

Once the anti-tobacco groups get a victory they will not just high five and walk away into the sunset. They are going to look for the next target

You would think by now, as a nation, that we would have learned that you can't legislate this stuff away. All it does is open up the flood gates to massive amounts of illegal activities that are almost impossible to snuff out and extremely expensive to fight...

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Originally Posted by ssaka

I can not argue with any of the logic regarding liberties, the unjustness of being old enough to die for your country and a myriad of other issues. However, when it comes to premuim handmade cigars the 18-26 year old is not a significant part of the consumer base. Granted there are some young connoisseurs of fine cigars who are extremely passionate, but as a rule it is not a market segment we seek. Simply put, very very few young adult consumers can afford to buy handmade cigars with any regularity.

I do not know the official position of the CRA, CAA or anyone in regards to this matter. But personally, while the libertarian in me dislikes any more rules or regulations, I do believe age increases to 21 is one that will not have a significant impact to the handmade cigar segment.

The really big issue is getting the federal government to recognize that not all tobacco is the same and that here needs to be a standalone classification for premium handmade cigars so we stop getting lumped into any broad based tobacco legislation.

STS

ps: I strongly encourage every retailer and consumer to become a member of the CRA. If all you ever do is pay your annual dues, you are helping to protect all of our interests in handmade cigars. Please consider it - thanks.

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This isn't so much about whether or not the "market segment" is affected as much as it is about - how much of the camel's "nose" do we allow in the tent.

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Originally Posted by ssaka

However, when it comes to premuim handmade cigars the 18-26 year old is not a significant part of the consumer base. Granted there are some young connoisseurs of fine cigars who are extremely passionate, but as a rule it is not a market segment we seek. Simply put, very very few young adult consumers can afford to buy handmade cigars with any regularity.

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I completely agree with your point, and statistically speaking, you are probably correct. I am usually the youngest person in my local shop by 20+ years. But allowing a small age bump now could lead to a host of other issues, including new blends being subject to governmental treatment, price floors on "premium cigars", etc. What threatens my liberties today may very well threaten yours tomorrow.

Guys,

You are preaching to the choir, obviously it is not what is just or fair. And while I do think it is worth fighting, ultimately we will have to choose which battles to engage in full force. IMO, the big issue is getting handmade cigars designated as such and in turn, get them out of the OTP category when it comes to FDA regulation and taxation. If that means one of the tradeoffs is a minimum age of 21 for purchase needs to be a concession, then I think it is one that is in the long run is wise.

While it is rightfully just to say "no" to everything, it is very doubtful that such a strategy will be a productive one and will likely result in decimated handmade cigar industry. The situation with taxes and regulation is EXTREMELY current and complex. IMO there is going to be a lot of back that is going to require concessions on both sides in order for a practical solution to be reached.

Understand the other side wants to make all tobacco illegal and will use egregious taxes and regulation to effectively accomplish their goals of eradicating all tobacco consumption. This is the battle we are engaged in right NOW and this again is why I implore everyone to become a member of the CRA and heed their calls when then ask you to write and talk to your local representatives.

I know forums is not always the best place to try engaging in these difficult and controversial issues, particularly those with so much complexity in them, but I wanted to added my personal viewpoint for consideration.

BR,

STS

Premium designation is priority #1 to me as well. As I understand it, there are debates currently in the house as to the specifics? (Post if you know)

I would gladly trade exemption for a 21 minimum age requirement. My only concern is that once that deal has been struck, a few years down the road a new fight will emerge and we will slowly have the FDA refilling our beads for us.

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Originally Posted by ssaka

Guys,

You are preaching to the choir, obviously it is not what is just or fair. And while I do think it is worth fighting, ultimately we will have to choose which battles to engage in full force. IMO, the big issue is getting handmade cigars designated as such and in turn, get them out of the OTP category when it comes to FDA regulation and taxation. If that means one of the tradeoffs is a minimum age of 21 for purchase needs to be a concession, then I think it is one that is in the long run is wise.

While it is rightfully just to say "no" to everything, it is very doubtful that such a strategy will be a productive one and will likely result in decimated handmade cigar industry. The situation with taxes and regulation is EXTREMELY current and complex. IMO there is going to be a lot of back that is going to require concessions on both sides in order for a practical solution to be reached.

Understand the other side wants to make all tobacco illegal and will use egregious taxes and regulation to effectively accomplish their goals of eradicating all tobacco consumption. This is the battle we are engaged in right NOW and this again is why I implore everyone to become a member of the CRA and heed their calls when then ask you to write and talk to your local representatives.

I know forums is not always the best place to try engaging in these difficult and controversial issues, particularly those with so much complexity in them, but I wanted to added my personal viewpoint for consideration.

BR,

STS

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I understand what you're saying.

However, I don't agree that we have to choose. My opinion is that special interest groups and government agencies that are as crooked as they come, should not have any say if a LEGAL ADULT makes an adult decision to buy tobacco.

History has also shown that appeasement is not the answer...

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Originally Posted by Upstatemax

I understand what you're saying.

However, I don't agree that we have to choose. My opinion is that special interest groups and government agencies that are as crooked as they come, should not have any say if a LEGAL ADULT makes an adult decision to buy tobacco.

History has also shown that appeasement is not the answer...

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You don't have to agree, nor will I be the one negotiating with the FDA, Congress and the Administration, there have been attorneys and lobbyists who are vastly more capable and experienced than I working on this task for the last seven years. Nobody knows the outcome, but it is beyond extremely unlikely that there will be no changes in the status quo.

As for this age issue, to date, those enacted have been done so at the local level. So be prepared to go to your own town, city, county and state governments to argue the validity of your point. Given that the current legal age for the purchase of alcohol is 21, the current tide against all things tobacco, and the desire of politicians to please the majority vs minority I personally believe this age issue is going to be nearly impossible to overcome.

BR,

STS

There are currently 4 states looking to raise the tobacco age, 3 of them to 21, and one of them to 19. It was four states, but Washington recently changed the law to read 19. None have passed yet but they look destined to pass in California and Rhode Island.

You should check TheCigarAuthority.com ... The site is maintained by me with 17 years in the tobacco business regularly pissing people off including my boss :)