Buying Estate Pipes on eBay

Buying Estate Pipes on eBay (or How I stopped worrying and learned to love buying Internet Pipe Bombs).

Some ideas about buying generic (briar) pipes off of the Internet and specifically eBay. Hope that it helps you avoid lemons, problems and maybe assist in finding some good values and is intended for beginners to intermediate experience.

You should know the basics of what to look for in a pipe. Tips for Choosing a Pipe

I’ll discuss smoking pipes that you will probably need to restore to some degree and specifically avoiding pipes with collector or brand value (in this thread).

I won’t explain how to discern the difference in quality between pipes (in this thread) so I’ll suffice with the simple fact that most machine made bowls are not highly variegated in quality of briar. The main differences are in quality of finishing, grain and lack of flaws and none of these (usually) have a substantial effect on smoking quality.

Thus, seconds or second line pipes (Civic, for example, was a second line of GBD) of famous brands will tend to smoke a lot like their more expensive counterparts. Since they’re both likely to be used and somewhat abused it’s a lot more economical to buy the $15 second line rather than the $50 first.

Many pipes that you’ll see on eBay were made for companies or stores by well known factories and these pipes are called private label.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/xP...64GrchmeLPOia4
Fig - 1. Charatan Cavalier

Fig - 1 is a branded Charatan in the (distinctive) cavalier shape that was also available as a 2nd or a private label. To be marked as a Charatan the bowl would have been clean (no fills), better finished and perhaps well grained but the briar would be similar across marques. If you see this shape in a ‘no name’ pipe it’s a good bet to have been made by Charatan.


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/Ly...SxnBkW9G323AP0
Fig - 2. Pair of (New Haven) Owl Shop private label pipes.

Fig - 2. Like many other tobacconists of their era, the Owl Shops had pipes labeled as their brand and these are two examples, the top pipe with their store name and the bottom pipe with the Harkness name. At different points in their history they used different manufacturers for their pipes including (if I remember Mrs. St. John correctly) Sasieni. I believe that both of these were made by Weber and wouldn’t want to bet my money that either was a Sasieni product without a lot closer inspection (like in hand).



https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/C6...yvFBfYbu2SGeoA
Fig - 3. Vintage Imported Briar Italian Two Piece Tobacco Smoking PIpe!

Looking for an Edge

Fig. - 3. The description tells you that the seller knows little about pipes so you should always look at these to see if the seller has missed something and perhaps you’ll score some better pipes that haven’t been fully or properly described. Also, look for misspelling of brand names that won't appear in an eBay search (fewer bidders).

I like used pipes with heavy cake because they were well smoked (and liked) by their previous owner but make certain that the cake doesn’t hide damage on the rim or that it’s caused the bowl to split.

What I see in this pipe

• Well caked but should be easy to ream.
  
• No discernable splits or rim damage.
  
• Bowl is dull but in excellent condition.
  
• Stem is oxidized but doesn’t show damage or much chatter.
  
• Beading is sharp (indicator of quality).
  
• I don’t see fills but I expect that there are some.
  
• Stem join appears reasonably close (may push further in when cleaned).

This pipe should be an easy restore. With no nomenclature to protect the new owner should be able to get it clean and shining without a lot of effort and at a reasonable price.

Dirty isn’t bad if you can clean it. When it comes to restoration, always know what you can and can’t do.

Read the Listing Carefully

• What is the nomenclature?
  
• Any damage noted?
  
• What is their return policy?
  
• Dimensions of the pipe (you need at least length or bowl height).
  
• Shipping charge (combined shipping if applicable).
  
• Where is the seller located (overseas can be a hassle and is $$$ to ship).

You want to look for pipes that meet your needs, aesthetic and that appear sound. Use care in buying pipes that look ‘fancy’ if you intend to smoke them. Some of the Swiss type Tyrolean pipes looked very neat and are near impossible to smoke and clean. If you’re smoking the pipe, be practical.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/ec...LwaR-hpyiVP-hM
Fig - 4. A Swiss type souvenir pipe that you won’t want to smoke.


Know what you can’t restore or repair (yes, I'm repeating myself). Damaged stems, in most cases, means that you’ll need to get it repaired. Factor the cost and trouble when bidding.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/c_...BnuC9_h8KAGKRU
Fig - 5. Inexpensive wind cap pipe. Description said good condition and mentioned nothing about the chewed through stem. Look carefully at the pictures for what’s not said.


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/cZ...4MzqGw-gAeHn5g
Fig - 6. (GBD) The rim conditional is abysmal, burnt and banged to a pulp. To restore this pipe you’d have to make it a pot but the rest of it wasn’t worth your time.


Past the basics
It’s a great idea to learn at least some rudimentary ideas about how pipes were manufactured in different eras. Some 1930s pipes are very nice with stems that are a bear to clench because they’re often thick, rounded or quasi- P-lips that are hard to push pipe cleaners through. French made seconds or second lines that say Algerian Briar usually were made in the 1960s or before. Kaywoodie has such a long history that it behooves their bidders to be able to date them. Know the manufacturers in England (for example) in the 1960s - who was making pipes then? Etc.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/V3...M0fNjOOsGLh0tM
Fig - 7. Harvard Square - Algerian Briar
Algerian briar isn’t necessarily better (or worse) but most pipes bearing the stamp were from the 1960s or before so you can date them. In general, briar was more plentiful and less expensive pipes were often made with better briar.

A few resources if you want to take your pipe buying to the next level:
Pipedia
Pipe Phil
Silver Hallmarks

Pipedia is user written and flawed but you can get a lot of good information too.
Pipe Phil has a great library of nomenclature for dating.
Silver hallmarks, when you find them, usually can be dated.

Hope that this helps.

Excellent information; it's greatly appreciated!

Do you have any tips for searching ebay itself, beyond general searches like "Estate Pipes"? Any tips if I'm on the lookout for a specific pipe?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Horsefeathers

Excellent information; it's greatly appreciated!

Do you have any tips for searching ebay itself, beyond general searches like "Estate Pipes"? Any tips if I'm on the lookout for a specific pipe?

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Hi Ryan,

eBay allows you to filter (left side of the screen). For pipes like those discussed, I would select:
condition = 'used'
format = 'auction'
search = 'PIPE in tobacciana'

I limit my searches to 'tobacciana' (department) otherwise the search for 'PIPES' returns a lot of chaff. Buy It Now listings tend to be aggressively priced on pipes with less intrinsic value so I filter them out. Obviously you can search by the brand name alone and then I look at all listings.

If I find a pipe that interests me I look at the seller's other items because they often have similar items from about the same era (and condition).

Pete

@NeverBend Thanks for the info. I've probably made > 10 ebay purchases in the past decade. Wouldn't mind finding some decent pipes for a good price though. :pipe:

Best and only eBay pipe I own, my Posella, came with Pete's tutelage. We're lucky to have men of his calibre here. I lit a bowl of Voodoo Queen and looked it up on Tobacco Reviews. First review was courtesy of JimInks, another Pipe Bum superhero. Thank you both for your considerable contributions to this field.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeverBend

Also, look for misspelling of brand names that won't appear in an eBay search (fewer bidders).

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Boy howdy! This is my favorite eBay trick. I remember at one time early in eBay's history, I decided to fill in my collection of Kliban cat mugs. They were starting to get a bit pricey, at least on eBay (though not in thrift stores!), but a search for "Kilban Cat" yielded bargains galore!

This is an EXEXEL sized pipe, though not marked as such, and although other stampings indicate this isn't a "pre-Transition" Barling, the grain indicates that pre-Transition briar was used.

The quote above is taken from the description of a Barling currently being offered on eBay. There is no way from the grain that any assumption should or could be made as far as the source of the briar. Sometimes you'll see claims that the nomenclature. T.V.F. (The Very Finest) indicates briar sourced from the earlier period but this is incorrect.

Barling essentially has two distinct periods of manufacture that are are referred to as Pre (basically 1960 and before and sometimes called Family Era) and Post Transition. Barling's briar is legend and with cause. Through 1954 they owned their own sawmill in Algeria and thus controlled their production from ground to mouth but after 1954 they purchased their briar and at least through 1960 it was exceptional wood. Pre-Transition Barling's command premium prices.

You should buy pipes on what you can determine as fact.

And now I know what T.V.F. on my Barling stands for.

This is a link to a seller that has (and has had) a lot of pipes for sale, as of this writing over 600!

Home Vintage Supply

I searched on this link for “pipe” and sorted by “ending soonest” in case the link doesn’t reflect my search.

Most of their pipes are offered with a ‘starting bid’ and a ‘Buy-It-Now option’. From the descriptions I don’t assume that they have expertise in pipes and the sheer number of offerings suggests that there are pipes here from several collections.

I have two points in referencing this seller.

1 - There are some solid values to be had if you know what you’re looking for (and at).
2 - Look for similarities in condition across pipes offered by a seller, especially those from a specific collection.

I found this seller a few months back when I saw an Urbino, a second line of pipes made by Massimo Palazzi (L’Anatra), formerly of Ser Jacopo, but unfortunately the bowl was cracked. When I (and I suggest you) see any seller with cracked, damaged, abused or broken pipes or mistreated stems, etc., you should tread carefully because smokers bad habits are exhibited across all of the pipes that they ‘enjoyed’. Any pipe that came from that collection may be similarly compromised.

At that time I noticed several other pipes that were in similar condition and correctly, (in all the listings that I read), the seller noted the damage and showed pictures. The prices, starting and Buy-It-Now, didn’t (and don’t since many are still for sale), reflect the seriousness of the damage. Since the seller describes the problems in word and pictures I have no problem with the offering but you, as a potential buyer, need to make sure that a pipe is in the condition that you require.

Urbino (damaged pipe)

I don’t find anything amiss in the pipes being sold by Home Vintage Supply and in fact I purchased a pipe from them today, a Ben Wade (?) handmade Reject, for $19.97 plus $4.54 shipping (this was the minimum bid).

Though a reject, this pipe was handmade by Charatan from exceptional briar and at the price it represents an excellent value. There were two (2) other Charatan handmade Rejects offered, one that also sold for the minimum and the other went unsold (below).

Post about the Charatan handmade Reject that I purchased (10:31pm, August 2nd, 2015)

(Ben Wade?) Reject handmade by Charatan Re-listed

(Ben Wade?) Sandblast Reject made by Charatan (probably handmade)

I listed the only two Rejects that I believe to be handmade by Charatan. If you search for “pipe reject” you’ll see the above two pipes as well as several others but only one of those others may be a handmade (better briar) while the rest are just ordinary and not good values at the starting price.

This seller’s pipes, from several collections, show (from the Ben Wade (?) Rejects that many smokers bought similar pipes during a definable range of time. Based on these Rejects I can conjecture that they bought several of the same type of piped from the early 1960s through the mid 1970s. That’s helpful in generalizing about other pipes that seem to be (or definitely are) from the same collection.

Happy hunting!

Pete

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alligator Gar

And now I know what T.V.F. on my Barling stands for.

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Hi Jim,

The following excerpt from a seller's description made me smile for it's understatement.

The country of manufacture stamping is “MADE IN ENGLAND.” with a period at the end, and it’s an EXEL size. It includes the TVF stamp, which means The Very Finest, and these early ones that had the stamp had it for a reason, they were above average.

A bit like saying that the Yankees run of World Series titles was above average. Can't say that this seller was making an overstatement.

TVF of course was a self made appellation but in their case it was usually just modest self acknowledgement.

Here's a link to the pipe referenced above.
Barling Pre-Transition Quaint

Pete

That Quaint is truly amazing. Am I correct in believing my NB Barling is pre-transition?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alligator Gar

That Quaint is truly amazing. Am I correct in believing my NB Barling is pre-transition?

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Hi Jim,

The seller has a billiard listed that he likes better but I, too, prefer the Quaint.

All of the Barlings that I've given away are post-transition (> 1962). The post-trans pipes are comparable in quality to the better lines of GBD from the same era. The pre-transition pipes were (generally) better quality and are more expensive as estates.

If I give a pipe as a gift it's either a good smoker or I've never smoked it. If a pipe smokes poorly I will sell it or trade it accompanied by my opinion of it. Of course I've had guys take this as a challenge, believing that they can make my pipe smoke better than me. :yawn:

Pete

I'm really enjoying it now that I've got it smoking right. Getting the mouse turd out of the stem was a huge break through. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alligator Gar

I'm really enjoying it now that I've got it smoking right. Getting the mouse turd out of the stem was a huge break through. ;)

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Hi Jim,

Sorry about the mouse turd, I usually have small mice so that the turd just sucks into the mouth like a little missile. Guess I need a smaller mouse?

__________________________________________________ ______________________________

Please feel free to post pipes here that have some problems or concerns. This thread isn't meant to be my personal rant.
__________________________________________________ ______________________________

When you see a rim that looks like this, these things have occurred:

• The pipe was smoked (very) hot over an extended period of time.
• There was damage to the rim surface that was sanded smooth. Pipes with this much use don't have crisp rims any longer.
• The cracks at the rim will extend, to a greater or lesser degree, into the bowl.
• The condition of the chamber should be assumed to be in the same (or worse) poor state of the rim.
• From this view you see a classic case of "being out of round". Some loss of round can happen to older pipes as they're reamed and used but if it's a result of charring or this extreme, don't buy it. Ragged rims indicate mistreatment.
• Yes, it's a Barling :)

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzIxWDE2MD...$_57.JPG?rt=nc

I have been spending a lot of time on ebay searching for estate pipe lots. :):o

Thinking about diving in. :confused::eek::cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fastnbulbous

I have been spending a lot of time on ebay searching for estate pipe lots. :):o

Thinking about diving in. :confused::eek::cool:

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Hi Adam,

(My son's name is Adam too).

I'd suggest taking it slow, setting limits and so forth. If you like I'd be happy to evaluate pipes that you're interested in.

Pete

I too look in on the estate pipes on ebay from time to time. The problem is, with everything else in life right now, I don't have the time or energy to put into learning about the ins and outs-- for someone like me, I wouldn't know a good deal if I saw one, which defeats the point of looking for deals in the first place. I can't tell if nobody has bid on it because it's crap, or if I'm looking at the deal of a lifetime because I accidentally spelled "Sasieni", "Sassinei" and nobody else found it, or something.

That, and I really "don't need" more pipes. Although, like with antique tools (another hobby of mine), that really isn't the right philosophy. I don't like 5 draw knives, or 60 axes, but I'm glad I have them anyway. So a few more pipes someday, in some favorite shapes, will be what I'll settle on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aguineapig

I too look in on the estate pipes on ebay from time to time. The problem is, with everything else in life right now, I don't have the time or energy to put into learning about the ins and outs-- for someone like me, I wouldn't know a good deal if I saw one, which defeats the point of looking for deals in the first place. I can't tell if nobody has bid on it because it's crap, or if I'm looking at the deal of a lifetime because I accidentally spelled "Sasieni", "Sassinei" and nobody else found it, or something.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aguineapig

That, and I really "don't need" more pipes. Although, like with antique tools (another hobby of mine), that really isn't the right philosophy. I don't like 5 draw knives, or 60 axes, but I'm glad I have them anyway. So a few more pipes someday, in some favorite shapes, will be what I'll settle on.

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You make a very good point about the difficulty in isolating a good value or, put another way, a pipe that has a good chance to smoke well at a price point that one wants to afford. As I've mentioned elsewhere, briar is the best material to make superior smoking pipes, but it's also inconsistent and no one can guarantee performance of any given piece.

There's a lot of mythology surrounding brand in pipes but I've never read any posts on the Internet (or elsewhere) that have (even) a fundamental understanding of what gives one (briar) pipe better opportunity to be an excellent smoker compared to another, and it has nothing to do with brand other than some companies do it better than others. Many smokers incorrectly interpret fancy shaping as the mark of a superior pipe and buy them on aesthetics, whim and hope.

The best smoking pipes are made that way by using superior materials and craftsmanship. It's not an accident that Barling has maintained a brilliant reputation for superior smoking pipes even though it's been over 50 years since they made pipes that way.

The best that anyone can do is to learn how the best pipes are made and select from that pool. I've picked up a steady stream of high quality pipes at reasonable prices (~$10 to ~$100) but not all pass muster for me. When they do, there’s great satisfaction and your taste buds will know the difference.

Regarding your excellent example of Sasieni, the question should be when the pipe was made because they changed processes over time. Collectors may purchase Sasieni pipes from the late Family Era (roughly 1950-1980) and some may be fine smokers but they made their best pipes before the mid 1930s. I recently picked up a damaged, but smokeable, little Sasieni from the 1920s for $6.00 (shipped) and though it’s not really my shape, it’s a very good smoker. The nomenclature is fun for collecting but if your goal is to get serious smoking pipes then there are other considerations and knowing what to look for is the key.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeverBend

The nomenclature is fun for collecting but if your goal is to get serious smoking pipes then there are other considerations and knowing what to look for is the key.

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That is what I more or less guessed at, and that it'd be more work than just learning brand names. With axes, for example, I can probably do what you do with pipes-- pick out ideal candidates for putting to use, independent of the "big names" that fetch ten or twenty times despite no guarantee they they will be geometrically or metalurgically as sound as the ones that are ten or twenty times cheaper, with no bids. But it took me years to get to that point!

Right now, I am an avowed cob smoker of D&R and C&D blends. Plain, good, consistent and no nonsense smokes. I'm happy with that, and down the road in life I'll enjoy the more attuned side of it (that one blend, in that one pipe that just sing, made in that one factory, etc) when I have nothing better to do (which is a wonderful thing to look forward to!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aguineapig

That is what I more or less guessed at, and that it'd be more work than just learning brand names. With axes, for example, I can probably do what you do with pipes-- pick out ideal candidates for putting to use, independent of the "big names" that fetch ten or twenty times despite no guarantee they they will be geometrically or metalurgically as sound as the ones that are ten or twenty times cheaper, with no bids. But it took me years to get to that point!

Right now, I am an avowed cob smoker of D&R and C&D blends. Plain, good, consistent and no nonsense smokes. I'm happy with that, and down the road in life I'll enjoy the more attuned side of it (that one blend, in that one pipe that just sing, made in that one factory, etc) when I have nothing better to do (which is a wonderful thing to look forward to!)

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Let me give you something to think about. You can buy lots (as in groups) of estate pipes for less than a new pipe would cost. Sometimes people know what they're selling, sometimes they don't. More importantly, sometimes I know what they're selling and sometimes I don't. I have enjoyed finding the kernel of wheat in the barrel of rat shit. Some don't. I never let my ignorance of any given pursuit stay me from participating in that pursuit. I've found and restored and now enjoy "that one pipe" many times over because I didn't wait to get attuned... I just dove in. Not trying to make money, not even trying very hard to avoid getting screwed or overpaying. Just trying to have some fun and learn some stuff. If you're moderately handy, and I imagine an axman would be, make it happen! Just don't bid on my lots! :D

The lots are the most intriguing posts.
Seems like you can easily get a dozen or 2 for a few bucks a pipe.
Gotta be a good one in there somewhere, no?
Most of them look to be in decent enough shape.

I may take you up on your offer to review pipe bids @alligatorgar.
Looking forward to learning from you.

When you see a band that's not original (this is a Barling) it's usually an indication that the shank was repaired. Generally the pipe will still smoke well but you should discount the value, especially on valuable pipes. I only know SJV (the brand on the band) in nickel although this looks like it may be sterling. The value of sterling bands is not very much in and of itself.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA2NlgxNj...$_57.JPG?rt=nc

It would be quite economical to buy pipes that are either missing their stem, or have one that is abysmally chewed up or snapped in half if you didn't mind doing some work replacing it? I've already done a bit of work with vulcanite blanks, for cobs and a couple of estate pipes that I've done already. I thinned them down a bit and made the button more comfortable, etc. I've been eyeing the estate pipes on ebay and it seems like a way to save a few bucks and end up with something that might even be more to your liking-- if not valuable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aguineapig

It would be quite economical to buy pipes that are either missing their stem, or have one that is abysmally chewed up or snapped in half if you didn't mind doing some work replacing it? I've already done a bit of work with vulcanite blanks, for cobs and a couple of estate pipes that I've done already. I thinned them down a bit and made the button more comfortable, etc. I've been eyeing the estate pipes on ebay and it seems like a way to save a few bucks and end up with something that might even be more to your liking-- if not valuable.

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Hi,

Sorry for the delay in responding.

Sure, you could repair your own stems but remember that it's not always straightforward. Certainly it makes sense to get some experience. A caveat is that there may be other damage beyond what you see, such as a broken tenon actually being a cracked shank. I personally never mess with stems other than shaping and cleaning them.


Seller Editorializing:

Pre-Transition Barling Ye Olde Wood "Special" Lovat Pipe #129 Straight Grain


This seller gives the correct nomenclature except that they added Straight Grain to the description. If you're familiar with Barling nomenclature then you know that no pipe would be a Special and Straight Grain since both were grain designations. Straight Grain is the seller's opinion and it's incorrectly applied (I suspect that they don't know what a straight grain is) and you should only accept opinions that are know by you to be factual.

Straight grain is always an opinion, and one cen be superior to another but to call it so a pipe should exhibit parallel grain lines running from the top of the bowl to the heel and around most or all of the bowl. They're rare. If it angles too much it should be classified as a Flame Grain. Special was a designation, by Barling, for well other well grained pipes.

This side of this pipe is a straight grain, well presented by the grain but technically a bit wide (grain too far apart to be a superior specimen).
http://assets.smokingpipes.com/image...4-001-6482.jpg




Tighter and more consistent straight grain.
http://www.alpascia.com/img/straight...-w400-h331.jpg





Flame grain.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2945/...6d369c_c_d.jpg

This is the Barling Special (link above), with lovely grain but it's not a straight grain. While not as valuable as straight grain, this lovely grain is a good indication that this pipe was made from quality, aged briar.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwMlgxNj...V62jI/$_57.JPG