Humidity Advice

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08-04-2015, 01:58 PM
LandonColby

Humidity Advice

I just tried doing an "express" seasoning of my humi (a Bally II Glass top). By express I mean that I popped a container of distilled water in it along with my two jars of Xicar PG crystals in hopes that it would be ready by the time my new shipment of cigars came (I had only been keeping about 10 cigars at a time in a tupper-dore for the last few months and let my humi dry out). It sat for 3-4 days and hung around 70% the whole time. Right now I have about 55 cigars sitting in it (20 Arganese Habanos, 20 Viliger Elites, 10 Torano Virtuosos, and a handful of other premiums for occasions) the RH is 65% which i don't mind, I like anything from 65% - 70%. But heres my question...at night the temp drops in the room where my humi is and thus does the RH (down to ~62%). Should I take everything out and continue the seasoning process? Or do you guys think I'll be fine in a little bit of time? The cigars are still in the cello and are a tad dry so i assume they'll take a chunk out of the RH until they re-hydrate a bit. So should I leave em and see if the RH slowly works back up to 70% or take em out and redo the whole thing?

Thanks in advance!
08-04-2015, 02:12 PM
TreySC

If the sticks are dry I would take them out and properly season the humi. Just put them in the tupperador or a ziploc. But if you don't want to 62% is horribly low so you'd probably be OK.
08-04-2015, 02:15 PM
Brimy

rH is just that, relative! So yes, you will get the % change with the change in temp, but (if I'm not mistaken, fellow BOTL chime in) the amount of moisture in the humi is still the same.
If you haven't I would check the seal around the glass, I hear that is a common source of rH leaks.
08-04-2015, 02:55 PM
LandonColby

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreySC

If the sticks are dry I would take them out and properly season the humi. Just put them in the tupperador or a ziploc. But if you don't want to 62% is horribly low so you'd probably be OK.

IS or ISN'T?
08-04-2015, 03:02 PM
LandonColby

I just don't want to lose any of the flavors from the oils. The Arganese Habanos have a wonderfully oily wrapper for a cheapo stick.
08-04-2015, 03:51 PM
StogieNinja

I know people who have stored their cigars at 62% for years, and they smoke great. 62% is perfectly fine.
08-04-2015, 03:57 PM
TreySC

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandonColby

IS or ISN'T?

isn't, sorry
08-04-2015, 04:01 PM
LandonColby

I figured even 60% RH is fine... though I wouldn't purposefully store that way. I know how people can be "number nazis" about RH and temp but I'm not a "super premium" cigar smoker. As in my sticks aren't very expensive. So as long as I can store them for a few years without mold or having them dry out to where they lose flavor I'm fine.

Thank you for some reassuring words.
08-04-2015, 04:05 PM
LandonColby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brimy

rH is just that, relative! So yes, you will get the % change with the change in temp, but (if I'm not mistaken, fellow BOTL chime in) the amount of moisture in the humi is still the same.
If you haven't I would check the seal around the glass, I hear that is a common source of rH leaks.

Understood. Yeah the RH drops at night but I don't think there is a leak because when the temp comes back up during the day so does the humidity. I'd be concerned if it dropped at night and then at the peak temp of the day the RH was lower, but it bounces back right where it left off the day before.
08-04-2015, 05:47 PM
Brimy

@LandonColby
Question, at what point did your rH drop from 70-65?
08-04-2015, 06:12 PM
LandonColby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brimy

@LandonColby
Question, at what point did your rH drop from 70-65?

After taking out the bowl of DW and putting in the cigars. The PG crystals stayed through the entire process.
08-04-2015, 06:38 PM
rodwha

I was a bit confused wondering how the RH could change like that indoors in an enclosed container.
08-04-2015, 06:50 PM
LandonColby

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodwha

I was a bit confused wondering how the RH could change like that indoors in an enclosed container.

Temperature.
08-04-2015, 06:52 PM
rodwha

Certainly, but indoors it shouldn't change that much.

Do you have a programmable T stat that you allow a significant difference in temp?
08-04-2015, 06:55 PM
rodwha

I didn't realize that despite being contained the temp could change the RH, especially not like that.
08-05-2015, 02:09 AM
LandonColby

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodwha

Certainly, but indoors it shouldn't change that much.

Do you have a programmable T stat that you allow a significant difference in temp?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodwha

I didn't realize that despite being contained the temp could change the RH, especially not like that.

Yeah, here in southern CA things get kinda warm this time of year. My Humi goes from low 70's/high 60's at night to 78-80 during the day.

usually hangs in the 70 range most of the year when it's not hot as hell.
08-05-2015, 08:45 AM
garublador

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandonColby

Understood. Yeah the RH drops at night but I don't think there is a leak because when the temp comes back up during the day so does the humidity. I'd be concerned if it dropped at night and then at the peak temp of the day the RH was lower, but it bounces back right where it left off the day before.

It depends on whether or not your ambient RH also changes. If you have a leak and the ambient RH drops at night and your media can't keep up then your humidor RH will also drop. If the ambient RH rises back up during the day then the RH in the humidor will rise as well.

FWIW, pretty much anything you use as a humidor will "leak" to some extent. The trick is to get the "leak" to be as small as possible.
08-05-2015, 10:11 AM
Rocket Scientologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandonColby

I just tried doing an "express" seasoning of my humi (a Bally II Glass top). By express I mean that I popped a container of distilled water in it along with my two jars of Xicar PG crystals in hopes that it would be ready by the time my new shipment of cigars came (I had only been keeping about 10 cigars at a time in a tupper-dore for the last few months and let my humi dry out). It sat for 3-4 days and hung around 70% the whole time. Right now I have about 55 cigars sitting in it (20 Arganese Habanos, 20 Viliger Elites, 10 Torano Virtuosos, and a handful of other premiums for occasions) the RH is 65% which i don't mind, I like anything from 65% - 70%. But heres my question...at night the temp drops in the room where my humi is and thus does the RH (down to ~62%). Should I take everything out and continue the seasoning process? Or do you guys think I'll be fine in a little bit of time? The cigars are still in the cello and are a tad dry so i assume they'll take a chunk out of the RH until they re-hydrate a bit. So should I leave em and see if the RH slowly works back up to 70% or take em out and redo the whole thing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandonColby

I figured even 60% RH is fine... though I wouldn't purposefully store that way. I know how people can be "number nazis" about RH and temp but I'm not a "super premium" cigar smoker. As in my sticks aren't very expensive. So as long as I can store them for a few years without mold or having them dry out to where they lose flavor I'm fine.

First of all, there's nothing wrong with 62%RH or 70%RH (if that's what you like) so I think you're fine there. I will say that 62-65%RH would better serve to prevent mold. I keep mine around 62%RH, for the record. Better burn IMO.

The daily cycle of low to high RH though may not be a good thing. Consistency is the key. You could try putting your humi someplace where the temperature won't fluctuate as much - a closet or basement perhaps. I will also echo the fact that glass tops are notorious for leaks. So ultimately, I'd suggest putting your cigars back in the tupperdore for the time being, getting a tube of aquarium sealant (safe for food contact) from Home Depot and putting a bead around the inside of the lid.
08-05-2015, 01:12 PM
Brimy

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandonColby

After taking out the bowl of DW and putting in the cigars. The PG crystals stayed through the entire process.

Did you put the cigars in right after you removed the DW? I'm not too familiar with the gel crystals, what rH are they supposed keep the rH at? I know that you said the cigars were a little dry, why? Where did you purchase them? Most sticks, from mail order especially, are going to come wetter than 65%!
If your humi holds a rH for three days empty, it should rise when you add the cigars.
As suggested before, I would put the cigars in Tupperware and season the humi. AND make sure of your seal around the glass. Calibrate your hygrometer.
Once your humi reads your desired rH for a week, then go ahead and put your cigars back in it.
08-07-2015, 06:05 AM
LandonColby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brimy

Did you put the cigars in right after you removed the DW? I'm not too familiar with the gel crystals, what rH are they supposed keep the rH at? I know that you said the cigars were a little dry, why? Where did you purchase them? Most sticks, from mail order especially, are going to come wetter than 65%!
If your humi holds a rH for three days empty, it should rise when you add the cigars.
As suggested before, I would put the cigars in Tupperware and season the humi. AND make sure of your seal around the glass. Calibrate your hygrometer.
Once your humi reads your desired rH for a week, then go ahead and put your cigars back in it.

Yeah I put them in right after. The sticks came from CI so they they had a nice trip to me from the other side of the country. The humidity has since went down rather than up like I had hoped. I took them out and they're sitting in a Tupperware with the crystals at a steady 70%.
The Xikar crystals I have maintain 70% and are reusable.

I'm going to silicone the inside seam of the glass and around the large hygrometer on the front since I'll never take it out to calibrate anyway.

Moral of they story...don't cut corners. I knew all along I should just get the damn thing seasoned right but I was being lazy lol.
Thanks for all the words of wisdom guys.
08-07-2015, 12:21 PM
Ilroy

With those huge temperature swings, you might consider just getting a wineador. A smaller one can be had for a reasonable price and hold a couple hundred or so, depending on RG. My RH is dead on day and night and the temp remains constant.
08-07-2015, 01:30 PM
Herf N Turf

Haven't read through the thread, but to answer you quickly, YES, you should be fine. The fact that you had some water in there for several days and assuming the cigars were properly stored prior to emigrating, there's enough of a buffer in there to hedge your bets nicely.

About everything I have to say about conditioning a humidor are in the two stickies at the top. They'll tell you what you did right and show you the things you should perhaps do differently.

Also, moved this to the proper forum.
08-11-2015, 02:53 PM
LandonColby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilroy

With those huge temperature swings, you might consider just getting a wineador. A smaller one can be had for a reasonable price and hold a couple hundred or so, depending on RG. My RH is dead on day and night and the temp remains constant.

Ultimately that's the goal. I strongly desire one but have been lazy and haven't looked too hard into finding a cheap one. Is anyone making these "ready to go" or is it still a DIY free for all? Or is anyone making cedar inserts for the Vinos?
08-11-2015, 03:27 PM
stonecutter2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brimy

rH is just that, relative! So yes, you will get the % change with the change in temp, but (if I'm not mistaken, fellow BOTL chime in) the amount of moisture in the humi is still the same.
If you haven't I would check the seal around the glass, I hear that is a common source of rH leaks.

This is correct. Colder air holds more water vapor, warmer air less. The water vapor present doesn't change, the amount held in the air and measured as relative humidity does.
08-11-2015, 03:40 PM
stonecutter2

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandonColby

Ultimately that's the goal. I strongly desire one but have been lazy and haven't looked too hard into finding a cheap one. Is anyone making these "ready to go" or is it still a DIY free for all? Or is anyone making cedar inserts for the Vinos?

I wouldn't worry about a wineador just yet.

I think more than anything, you may just need more humidity buffering within the humidor for now, until the Spanish cedar truly seasons and the cigars acclimate to the humidor. Your swings of RH while the cigars were in the humi, in my opinion, are just the cigars "breathing" based on the ambient temperature of the humidor and the RH they're experiencing. As temperatures rise, the humidity is released from the cigars and from the air, and the gel and Spanish cedar will absorb some of that excess humidity slowly. As temps cool, the air will absorb more humidity and so will the cigars.

Keep in mind that cigars act just like any humidifying gel or packet will - they absorb and release humidity, too. When adding a new "factor" (your cigars) into an enclosed space, you may see some shifts in relative humidity until things settle out. You want to wait it out and see where things land when they stabilize.
62-65 RH isn't a big deal.
58-75 RH is, or can be, if you go from 75 to 71 to 68 to 63 to 58.....and don't climb back up!

You really should worry more about consistent and gradual declines in RH, than a seesaw number that fluctuates. A gradual decrease indicates either the humi isn't seasoned enough yet, or you have a leak.

I like Boveda packs as they are 2 way - they both absorb and release humidity, and with enough in a space, they will maintain a humidity quite well.

Ideally, a humidor should stay stable in both temp and RH, but fluctuations as you describe aren't that bad at all. High 60's to low 80's in temp...don't think that's a big deal. So long as you see swaying of RH readings up and down and back up again. You WILL see RH move around with temps moving like that though, that's why it's relative humidity (Google it):
the amount of water vapor present in air expressed as a percentage of the amount needed for saturation at the same temperature.
08-11-2015, 04:29 PM
Rocket Scientologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonecutter2

Colder air holds more water vapor, warmer air less.

You've got that backwards.
08-11-2015, 04:37 PM
LandonColby

Quote:

Originally Posted by stonecutter2

I wouldn't worry about a wineador just yet.

I think more than anything, you may just need more humidity buffering within the humidor for now, until the Spanish cedar truly seasons and the cigars acclimate to the humidor. Your swings of RH while the cigars were in the humi, in my opinion, are just the cigars "breathing" based on the ambient temperature of the humidor and the RH they're experiencing. As temperatures rise, the humidity is released from the cigars and from the air, and the gel and Spanish cedar will absorb some of that excess humidity slowly. As temps cool, the air will absorb more humidity and so will the cigars.

Keep in mind that cigars act just like any humidifying gel or packet will - they absorb and release humidity, too. When adding a new "factor" (your cigars) into an enclosed space, you may see some shifts in relative humidity until things settle out. You want to wait it out and see where things land when they stabilize.
62-65 RH isn't a big deal.
58-75 RH is, or can be, if you go from 75 to 71 to 68 to 63 to 58.....and don't climb back up!

You really should worry more about consistent and gradual declines in RH, than a seesaw number that fluctuates. A gradual decrease indicates either the humi isn't seasoned enough yet, or you have a leak.

I like Boveda packs as they are 2 way - they both absorb and release humidity, and with enough in a space, they will maintain a humidity quite well.

Ideally, a humidor should stay stable in both temp and RH, but fluctuations as you describe aren't that bad at all. High 60's to low 80's in temp...don't think that's a big deal. So long as you see swaying of RH readings up and down and back up again. You WILL see RH move around with temps moving like that though, that's why it's relative humidity (Google it):
the amount of water vapor present in air expressed as a percentage of the amount needed for saturation at the same temperature.

I bet they would have been fine but I didn't want to wait and see. My humi has been sitting and it's well OVER humidified. I took the bowl of DW out and stuck both of my Xikar gel crystals in (both rated for 50 cigars and are also 2-way like bovedas). Now I'm patiently waiting for the rH to drop to 70 and stabilize then I'll add my babies back in.

Also just wanted to say that colder air will hold LESS moisture, it may seem that way looking at a digital hygrometer but that's because the colder air makes moisture condense on the element in the hygro.

Long story short...I still want a wineador lol
08-11-2015, 04:59 PM
Ilroy

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandonColby

Ultimately that's the goal. I strongly desire one but have been lazy and haven't looked too hard into finding a cheap one. Is anyone making these "ready to go" or is it still a DIY free for all? Or is anyone making cedar inserts for the Vinos?

There are some ready to go ones out there. Check Amazon to see if they have them in stock, and Home Depot also has some ready to go. If you have the available funds, it is very easy to get into one.
08-12-2015, 11:08 PM
stonecutter2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket Scientologist

You've got that backwards.

Lol oh yeah I totally flipped that around. Sctratch that, reverse it.
08-13-2015, 10:18 AM
FireRunner

A change in RH for 6-8 hours will not impact your cigars. They are not that sensitive. It takes a major change in temperature and RH to impact the smokability of cigars.
08-15-2015, 02:16 PM
Deke

Quote:

Originally Posted by StogieNinja

I know people who have stored their cigars at 62% for years, and they smoke great. 62% is perfectly fine.

I agree. If concerned, use 65% Boveda packs. Are basically idiot proof.