Pipe Tobacco Blends: Under The Label

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08-22-2015, 04:04 PM
NeverBend

Pipe Tobacco Blends: Under The Label
The idea of this thread is to connect the dots between the myriad of pipe tobacco mixtures available today and to post the names and characteristics of blends that you find to be very similar or identical. Being correct isn't really the point, rather to have a community discussion on those tobaccos that you think should be grouped together, either because they are, in fact, identical, or close enough in your estimation that other smokers can profit from that knowledge. I think this should be an ongoing thread and if we do a good job the the comparisons should, perhaps, be put into a stick pr reference thread for other smokers to access when contemplating blends.

An examples in a format that you can use (and improve) as you like.

Mild-medium Virginia Flake, made in Denmark.
1. Peter Stokkebye, Luxury Navy Flake
2. Comoy's Cask #4
I can't distinguish between the two, visually or in smoking. Everything about these 2 mixtures seems to be the same and I believe that they are, in fact, the same tobacco under different labels. Flakes need specialized equipment so that the same country of origin is meaningful (in this case).

http://img.pipesandcigars.com/p/300/...psc0028-nv.png http://img.pipesandcigars.com/p/300/pt/c/pt-cmh0100.png
Stokkebye Luxury Navy Flake Comoy Cask #4

Images may not be always be accurate but in this case they look correct.
08-22-2015, 09:37 PM
c.ortiz108

Great idea! There seems to be debate about whether

Stokkebye Luxury Bullseye Flake =
Davidoff Flake Medallions =
Comoy's Cask No. 7
08-22-2015, 10:08 PM
NeverBend

Quote:

Originally Posted by c.ortiz108

Great idea! There seems to be debate about whether

Stokkebye Luxury Bullseye Flake =
Davidoff Flake Medallions =
Comoy's Cask No. 7

Hi Chico,

Your questions inspired the thread. It's not meant to knock any tobacco but to inform us all, based on experience, so that we can make better choices.

I've only smoked the Stokkebye (photo on the right). The Comoy is beaten up some but they look very similar made in the same difficult pressing technique and all made in Denmark. Anyone tried more than one of these?

http://img.pipesandcigars.com/p/300/pt/c/pt-cmf0100.png http://img.pipesandcigars.com/l/300/pb/d/pb-dve.png http://img.pipesandcigars.com/p/300/...psb0028-be.png
08-23-2015, 09:15 AM
BryGuySC

The guy on this thread did a good job comparing differenV Capers. He talks about the similarities of the coins.
Virginia/Perique (VaPer) Showdown - Page 5 - Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum
08-23-2015, 05:16 PM
NeverBend

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryGuySC

The guy on this thread did a good job comparing differenV Capers. He talks about the similarities of the coins.
Virginia/Perique (VaPer) Showdown - Page 5 - Cigar Asylum Cigar Forum

Bryan, thanks for the link.

I believe that this is his 'master list' of VaPers, not necessarily the same cut, strength (etc.) but all of the same generic type. It's possible that some are the same mixture. I added some entries at the bottom from what's already been discussed here.

1) McConnell Scottish Cake
2) Samuel Gawith’s St. James Flake
3) GL Pease Tribute
4) Escudo
5)GL Pease Triple Play
6) GL Pease Filmore
7) Former’s Straight Grain Flake
8) H & H AJ’s VaPer
9) Low Country’s Waccamaw
10) Peretti’s Park Square
11) John Patton’s Cool Hand Fluke
12) H & H Rolando’s Own
13) H & H Anniversary Kake
14) G & H Louisiana Flake
15) Sherlock Holmes Pipe Club VR Blend
16) C & D Poplar Camp
17) Dunhill Elizabethan Mixture
18) C & D Night Train
19) H & H Louisiana Red
20) C & D Bayou Morning Flake
21) Reiner’s Long Golden Flake
22) Treasures of Ireland - Limerick
23) Dorchester
24) Solani #633
25) Luxury Bullseye Flake
26) McClelland Bulk 2015
27) GL Pease Telegraph Hill
28) Kajun Kake
29) Luxury Navy Flake
30) Dan Tobacco's Tordenskjold Virginia Slices

PS Added: 8-23-15
31) Davidoff Flake Medallions (Stokkebye Bullseye Flake)
32) Comoy Cask #7 (Stokkebye Bullseye Flake)
33) Comoy Cask #4 (Stokkebye Luxury Navy Flake)
08-23-2015, 05:46 PM
c.ortiz108

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverBend

I've only smoked the Stokkebye (photo on the right). The Comoy is beaten up some but they look very similar made in the same difficult pressing technique and all made in Denmark. Anyone tried more than one of these?

Comoy's appears to be owned by Stokkebye, according to this website Comoy’s – Cask #7 | Confessions of a Pipe Smoker, while DFM is made by Orlik (according to TR). I wonder if Orlik manufactures for PS? I also wonder if these are essentially the same only made with slightly varying grades of tobacco. I guess there are no "apprentice rollers" in the pipe world, so cost differences wouldn't be due to manufacturing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverBend

I believe that this is his 'master list' of VaPers, not necessarily the same cut, strength (etc.) but all of the same generic type. It's possible that some are the same mixture. I added some entries at the bottom from what's already been discussed here.

1) McConnell Scottish Cake
2) Samuel Gawith’s St. James Flake
3) GL Pease Tribute
4) Escudo
5)GL Pease Triple Play
6) GL Pease Filmore
7) Former’s Straight Grain Flake
8) H & H AJ’s VaPer
9) Low Country’s Waccamaw
10) Peretti’s Park Square
11) John Patton’s Cool Hand Fluke
12) H & H Rolando’s Own
13) H & H Anniversary Kake
14) G & H Louisiana Flake
15) Sherlock Holmes Pipe Club VR Blend
16) C & D Poplar Camp
17) Dunhill Elizabethan Mixture
18) C & D Night Train
19) H & H Louisiana Red
20) C & D Bayou Morning Flake
21) Reiner’s Long Golden Flake
22) Treasures of Ireland - Limerick
23) Dorchester
24) Solani #633
25) Luxury Bullseye Flake
26) McClelland Bulk 2015
27) GL Pease Telegraph Hill
28) Kajun Kake
29) Luxury Navy Flake
30) Dan Tobacco's Tordenskjold Virginia Slices

PS Added: 8-23-15
31) Davidoff Flake Medallions (Stokkebye Bullseye Flake)
32) Comoy Cask #7 (Stokkebye Bullseye Flake)
33) Comoy Cask #4 (Stokkebye Luxury Navy Flake)

Are those in any particular order?
08-25-2015, 02:00 AM
NeverBend

Quote:

Originally Posted by c.ortiz108

Comoy's appears to be owned by Stokkebye, according to this website Comoy’s – Cask #7 | Confessions of a Pipe Smoker, while DFM is made by Orlik (according to TR). I wonder if Orlik manufactures for PS? I also wonder if these are essentially the same only made with slightly varying grades of tobacco. I guess there are no "apprentice rollers" in the pipe world, so cost differences wouldn't be due to manufacturing.

Are those in any particular order?

Hi Chico,

I don't know if these tobaccos (list) are in any particular order other than the three that I added at the end.

Orlik was part of the Cadogan portfolio of brands and hasn't (to my knowledge) manufactured anything in over 30 years. Orlik, once an English company, is now extinct except for the use of it's name on Danish made tobaccos and while I'm not sure who TR is, Davidoff Flake Medallions are made in Denmark so it must be either Stokkebye (probable) or MacBarren.

I don't know if Stokkebye owns the Comoy's or Orlik names outright or just for use with tobaccos or even if they own it at all. The difference is that the Davidoff name wouldn't be owned by Stokkebye. I'm sure that the young fellow who wrote the blog is very nice but his knowledge about tobaccos is very limited and he shouldn't be considered an information source. For example, he writes,

One thing I really appreciated about this blend was how the Black Cavendish tobacco was packed into the center of the coin, not just dispersed randomly throughout. What this tells me is that Comoy’s cares greatly about their tobacco. The time and finesse it takes to accomplish something that honestly adds so little to the tobacco is a true testament to the quality of this blend.
No. It's more difficult to intersperse the black cavendish but it wouldn't really be random because any flake processing has a method to it's preparation. He made this up or was told this by someone who made this up or they were told by someone who did (etc.). Thus the problem with much Internet content about pipes, tobaccos and cigars on the Internet (and other things of course).

One thing I noticed about this blend is that when rubbing it out, I could really feel the oil and the nicotine collecting on my fingers. It reminded my of Mac Baren Bold Kentucky and how I got a nicotine buzz from just absorbing the oil on my fingertips. Cask #7 was not nearly that bad, but it was most definitely an oily tobacco.This made me blink. He got a nic buzz from touching the tobacco?? I guess he gets drunk looking at Jack Daniels bottles too? Maybe if he chewed a flake.

Pete
08-25-2015, 10:45 AM
BryGuySC

Quote:

Originally Posted by c.ortiz108

Are those in any particular order?

The OP was rating them. #1 being his favorite.
08-25-2015, 12:18 PM
BryGuySC

Scandinavian Tobacco Group lists the following makes in their brand list:

Balkan Sasieni
Borkum Riff
Captain Black
Crown Achievement
Erinmore
Escudo
Five Brothers
Half and Half
Lane Bulk
Orlik
Paladin
Peter Stokkebye Bulk
Sail
Sir Walter Raleigh
Skandinavik
Smoker's Pride
Stanwell
Troost
Velvet
W.Ø. Larsen

I didn't see anything about specific processing plants, yet.
08-25-2015, 06:36 PM
c.ortiz108

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverBend

Hi Chico,

I don't know if these tobaccos (list) are in any particular order other than the three that I added at the end.

Orlik was part of the Cadogan portfolio of brands and hasn't (to my knowledge) manufactured anything in over 30 years. Orlik, once an English company, is now extinct except for the use of it's name on Danish made tobaccos and while I'm not sure who TR is, Davidoff Flake Medallions are made in Denmark so it must be either Stokkebye (probable) or MacBarren.

I don't know if Stokkebye owns the Comoy's or Orlik names outright or just for use with tobaccos or even if they own it at all. The difference is that the Davidoff name wouldn't be owned by Stokkebye. I'm sure that the young fellow who wrote the blog is very nice but his knowledge about tobaccos is very limited and he shouldn't be considered an information source. For example, he writes,

One thing I really appreciated about this blend was how the Black Cavendish tobacco was packed into the center of the coin, not just dispersed randomly throughout. What this tells me is that Comoy’s cares greatly about their tobacco. The time and finesse it takes to accomplish something that honestly adds so little to the tobacco is a true testament to the quality of this blend.
No. It's more difficult to intersperse the black cavendish but it wouldn't really be random because any flake processing has a method to it's preparation. He made this up or was told this by someone who made this up or they were told by someone who did (etc.). Thus the problem with much Internet content about pipes, tobaccos and cigars on the Internet (and other things of course).

One thing I noticed about this blend is that when rubbing it out, I could really feel the oil and the nicotine collecting on my fingers. It reminded my of Mac Baren Bold Kentucky and how I got a nicotine buzz from just absorbing the oil on my fingertips. Cask #7 was not nearly that bad, but it was most definitely an oily tobacco.This made me blink. He got a nic buzz from touching the tobacco?? I guess he gets drunk looking at Jack Daniels bottles too? Maybe if he chewed a flake.

Pete

Curiouser and curiouser.... So ultimately a lot of these brands will be traceable back to a few manufacturers and therefore presumably the same factories, meaning some are probably identical or close (the equivalent of "seconds").

TR = tobaccoreviews.com. Apologies for the obscure abbreviation.

I guess I glossed over the part about the nic buzz through his fingers! I'd been reading a news article about medical marijuana a few minutes earlier, so I was probably stoned.... :stupid:
08-25-2015, 07:34 PM
NeverBend

Quote:

Originally Posted by c.ortiz108

Curiouser and curiouser.... So ultimately a lot of these brands will be traceable back to a few manufacturers and therefore presumably the same factories, meaning some are probably identical or close (the equivalent of "seconds").

TR = tobaccoreviews.com. Apologies for the obscure abbreviation.

I guess I glossed over the part about the nic buzz through his fingers! I'd been reading a news article about medical marijuana a few minutes earlier, so I was probably stoned.... :stupid:

Evening Chico,

It was my business to quickly assess the level of a smoker by their words or small actions and this fellow seems to be a new arrival who is infatuated but has little foundation in fact. Fellows like this love the story and in the absence of detail they fill in the blanks.

Yes, there are a limited number of manufacturers and many brands (faces). These manufacturers usually make tobaccos under brand names that they own as well as brands that they're contracted to make. The Rattray's name, for example, was never owned by McConnell but he made the tobaccos for them under contract for the better part of a century. Unlike pipes, there are no seconds in tobacco. If there's a bad batch it's discarded. It comes down to how each manufacturer buys their leaf and processes it and there's a similarity across their brands and faces in quality and to some degree, content..

Tobacco Review is written by individual smokers who may or may not know the facts in any given situation. Until you can confirm what you read there (or elsewhere) put a question mark next to it :).
08-25-2015, 09:38 PM
c.ortiz108

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverBend

Evening Chico,

It was my business to quickly assess the level of a smoker by their words or small actions and this fellow seems to be a new arrival who is infatuated but has little foundation in fact. Fellows like this love the story and in the absence of detail they fill in the blanks.

Yes, there are a limited number of manufacturers and many brands (faces). These manufacturers usually make tobaccos under brand names that they own as well as brands that they're contracted to make. The Rattray's name, for example, was never owned by McConnell but he made the tobaccos for them under contract for the better part of a century. Unlike pipes, there are no seconds in tobacco. If there's a bad batch it's discarded. It comes down to how each manufacturer buys their leaf and processes it and there's a similarity across their brands and faces in quality and to some degree, content..

Tobacco Review is written by individual smokers who may or may not know the facts in any given situation. Until you can confirm what you read there (or elsewhere) put a question mark next to it :).

Good to know about tobacco "seconds" - so assuming variation between the example above (Davidoff FM, Comoy's 7, and PS Bullseye), that would be due to differences in the quality of tobacco they started with, rather than anything that happens in processing. So if they're all made in the same factory, it may be something like the choicest cuts of what they purchased goes into DFM, the slightly less choice into PS, and the dregs into Comoy's.

Good to know about Tobacco Reviews, too - I'd assumed that the descriptive information on each blend was "official" and that it was just the reviews themselves that anyone could do. I guess that explains why some blends will list a particular kind of tobacco, and some reviews will swear it's not there and some swear it is.
08-26-2015, 12:31 AM
BryGuySC

I read that Newminster is made in the Mac Baren factory; a collaboration between them and Villager.
08-26-2015, 11:16 AM
El Whedo

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverBend

This made me blink. He got a nic buzz from touching the tobacco?? I guess he gets drunk looking at Jack Daniels bottles too? Maybe if he chewed a flake.

Seein' as how you are the only Worthy Font of Tobacco Knowledge, you never heard of it, so it can't exist, right?

CLICKY---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Tobacco_Sickness

Now a days it's usually migrants that suffer from this, but when I was a kid, all the kids were let outta school to bring in the harvest, and it was mostly kids suffering from GTS. A few would even die each year.
08-26-2015, 11:46 AM
c.ortiz108

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Whedo

Seein' as how you are the only Worthy Font of Tobacco Knowledge, you never heard of it, so it can't exist, right?

CLICKY---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Tobacco_Sickness

Now a days it's usually migrants that suffer from this, but when I was a kid, all the kids were let outta school to bring in the harvest, and it was mostly kids suffering from GTS. A few would even die each year.

Wow, that's harsh. Was this in NM?

Not surprising that that kind of intense exposure would have dire consequences, but getting a nic buzz from rubbing out flakes....?
08-26-2015, 12:05 PM
NeverBend

Quote:

Originally Posted by c.ortiz108

Good to know about tobacco "seconds" - so assuming variation between the example above (Davidoff FM, Comoy's 7, and PS Bullseye), that would be due to differences in the quality of tobacco they started with, rather than anything that happens in processing. So if they're all made in the same factory, it may be something like the choicest cuts of what they purchased goes into DFM, the slightly less choice into PS, and the dregs into Comoy's.

Correct, there are no seconds, no need.

Incorrect about 'choicest cuts', there is no such thing. Leaf is graded and sold at or before the wholesaler (supplier) level. Manufacturer's buy graded leaf. If Davidoff FM, Comoy Cask #7 and Stokkeby Bullseye all have the same formula, then they will be the same tobacco. Make the roll, slice tobacco into tins and put three different labels on the stuff. If the formula calls for a different or better quality leaf then it's a different formula.

Manufacturers (normally) won't change they way that they make tobacco to suit a single client so each incarnation of a specific mixture should be the same no matter who the end customer is or what that customer claims. When re-selling the product, one may say, 'choicest' leaf and the other 'best quality' but they're both referring to the same VirginiaXYZ from that manufacturer.

Manufacturers may require a minimum quantity before they'll make custom mixtures but it's also possible that they'll insist on a small difference, as McConnell did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by c.ortiz108

Good to know about Tobacco Reviews, too - I'd assumed that the descriptive information on each blend was "official" and that it was just the reviews themselves that anyone could do. I guess that explains why some blends will list a particular kind of tobacco, and some reviews will swear it's not there and some swear it is.

Yes, very observant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryGuySC

I read that Newminster is made in the Mac Baren factory; a collaboration between them and Villager.

Bryan, I'm smoking the Newminster #403 Superior Round Slices (P&C 20% sale) as I write. The curlies certainly look and taste more like MacBaren and not Stokkebye and they've been working with Dark Fired KY, so it's appearance in contract mixtures makes sense (and may be the same as something else under a different label).

The Newminster #403 smokes hot and a bit coarse but it's like a poor man's version of Gawith Hoggarth Curly Cut deLuxe Sliced and that's good company. Give me a few more bowls but I think that we should link them on profile and taste.
08-26-2015, 12:12 PM
c.ortiz108

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverBend

Correct, there are no seconds, no need.

Incorrect about 'choicest cuts', there is no such thing. Leaf is graded and sold at or before the wholesaler (supplier) level. Manufacturer's buy graded leaf. If Davidoff FM, Comoy Cask #7 and Stokkeby Bullseye all have the same formula, then they will be the same tobacco. Make the roll, slice tobacco into tins and put three different labels on the stuff. If the formula calls for a different or better quality leaf then it's a different formula.

Manufacturers (normally) won't change they way that they make tobacco to suit a single client so each incarnation of a specific mixture should be the same no matter who the end customer is or what that customer claims. When re-selling the product, one may say, 'choicest' leaf and the other 'best quality' but they're both referring to the same VirginiaXYZ from that manufacturer.

Manufacturers may require a minimum quantity before they'll make custom mixtures but it's also possible that they'll insist on a small difference, as McConnell did.

I have some Bullseye on the way, so will do a side-by-side comparison with DFM at some point. They again, this is a person that can't really tell the difference between one burley aro and another, so not sure my observations will be very useful!
08-26-2015, 01:01 PM
BryGuySC

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverBend

Correct, there are no seconds, no need.

Bryan, I'm smoking the Newminster #403 Superior Round Slices (P&C 20% sale) as I write. The curlies certainly look and taste more like MacBaren and not Stokkebye and they've been working with Dark Fired KY, so it's appearance in contract mixtures makes sense (and may be the same as something else under a different label).

The Newminster #403 smokes hot and a bit coarse but it's like a poor man's version of Gawith Hoggarth Curly Cut deLuxe Sliced and that's good company. Give me a few more bowls but I think that we should link them on profile and taste.

I heard that the 403 really needs some aging time to smooth it out.
08-26-2015, 04:15 PM
NeverBend

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Whedo

Seein' as how you are the only Worthy Font of Tobacco Knowledge, you never heard of it, so it can't exist, right?

CLICKY---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Tobacco_Sickness

Now a days it's usually migrants that suffer from this, but when I was a kid, all the kids were let outta school to bring in the harvest, and it was mostly kids suffering from GTS. A few would even die each year.

Hi Mark,

You can’t compare the problem of nicotine poisoning in a tobacco harvester, who handles thousands of raw,wet leaves a day and over time, to some guy who thinks that he got a buzz from sticking his fingers into a tin of processed pipe tobacco. Does Hamborger Veermaster give you a buzz when you touch it?

This isn’t the first time that you’ve made a snide response to me and I sent you a PM the last time, to keep it off of the forum, but you didn’t reply. I don’t apologize for my expertise and I’ve responded to you, here and before, with respect and trust that you’ll do the same going forward.

Pete
08-26-2015, 04:49 PM
Emperor Zurg

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Whedo

Seein' as how you are the only Worthy Font [sic] of Tobacco Knowledge, you never heard of it, so it can't exist, right?

Mark,

I must say I consider you an expert in the realm of pipes and baccy and while I have no problems with you or anyone else disagreeing with another member, I hardly see it as constructive to be a fvcking a$$hole about it.

Just my worthless 2 bits... take it for what it's worth.
08-26-2015, 09:32 PM
GWBowman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Tobacco_Sickness

"Green Tobacco Sickness (GTS) is a type of nicotine poisoning caused by the dermal absorption of nicotine from the surface of wet tobacco plants.[1] Tobacco harvesters, whose clothing becomes saturated from tobacco wet with rain or morning dew, are at high risk of developing GTS. Workers can avoid getting this sickness by waiting to harvest until the tobacco leaves are dry, or by wearing a rain suit. Wet clothing that has come in contact with tobacco leaves should be removed immediately and the skin washed with warm soapy water."

How wet and green do some people ship pipe blends? Would you have to let that sit out for a fortnight before packing a bowl?