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I've been looking today on eBay at Dunhill pipes and have seen the "shell" series often. They are at the lower end of the price range for Dunhills and I was just wondering if the shell briar is a lesser quality product.
Are these still good pipes or are they inferior?
I would love to own a Dunhill and these can be had for under $200 regularly. Just wondering if they're worth it.
I don't know much about them, but I recently auctioned off 3 of them. There was quite a price difference as they sold for $100, $280 and $420.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Breeze
.......If you are talking Dunhill pipes:
- Shell briar is a line that is sandblasted with a dark stain.
- Root briar is a line that is smooth with a light stain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
So it's more about the finish and not about the actual briar?
I suppose with the unfinished look, they could use the less attractive wood to make them and use the top notch, more aesthetically pleasing wood for the smooth. I guess that could explain the price difference.
That way both would still be the same actual real world quality.
need to sell more product, someone get a hammer, now we have 2 lines of product.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Breeze
The story I read once went something like this. Somebody at the Dunhill factory was moving a box of loose sandblast pipes and they were rattling around and someone said something to the effect of " It sounds like sea shells rattling" and the name shell stuck and it refers to their sandblast pipes. I read that somewhere a long time ago, probably in the Pipe Smokers Ephemeris; the exact details may be somewhat different but that's what stuck in my mind.
Hi Paul,Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Breeze
Sandblasting is done to bowls that have flaws after the shape has been finished. It could be argued that this makes them seconds but the blast process is like a torture test for the briar, if the flaw was more than superficial then it would blow through (make a hole in the bowl). I consider sandblasts to be first quality for this reason. The same isn't true of carved or rusticated pipes.
Sandblasting reveals the grain of the pipe in relief. The increased surface area of a sandblasted pipes is believed, by some, to better radiate heat away from the tobacco chamber (and this give a cooler smoke).
Shells are generally less costly than the smooth Root or Bruyere finishes of Dunhill but the briar should be similar in the same era. Make sure that it has an original Dunhill stem (the white dot doesn't guarantee this) because they are hand made and excellent quality. The wide price differences are generally related to the collectability of the pipe and condition.
Trying a Dunhill is something of a right of passage, great mystique.
Regards,
Pete
Exactly right. The shell briar with excellent ring grain will likely be somewhat more expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Breeze
So true, Pete. I'll never forget when I smoked my first Dunhill. I was at a friend's house where he was teaching me how to replace stems (he had a shop) and he had a few Dunhills. I had always kind of thought that the mystique around Dunhill pipes was all hype, that they were just status symbols, etc. He whipped out a group 4 Bruyere billiard and instructed me to load it up with a tobacco that I had never heard of, 1Q. When I fired it up, it tasted wonderful and cool. I was impressed! He ended up selling me the pipe and it was my first Dunhill. They DO smoke good! At least the older ones. Can't speak about the newer ones because I've never bought a new one. I couldn't figure out what it was about the pipes that made them smoke so well. Another friend, a tobacconist in Nashville, told me of the many steps in the manufacturing process, some of which were trade secrets. He told me that one of the secrets was boiling the bowls in whale head oil, something that is no longer readily obtainable. It made sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverBend
I've been looking at ones from my birth year on ebay.
Don't know when I'll be able to pull the trigger on one, but I think my first will be a 1980 model. ;)
Dunhill pipes are oil-cured, rather than air-cured. The advantage of that is that they smoke sweet from the first pipeful. My group 2 Dunhill Liverpool did. But, after break-in, my other good briars smoke just as fine as the Dunhill. And my inexpensive aluminum-stem Kirsten Mariner is the sweetest-smoking pipe I own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haebar
Hi Tab,
Even inexpensive bucket pipes take many manufacturing steps to complete. Dunhill makes their stems from rod vulcanite, think old style bowling ball material, that adds process time but it makes for an exceptional stem. In all the factories that I've been to there's nothing secretive about Dunhill's process other than that they've been buying stummels (unfinished bowls) from other manufacturers since the beginning of their pipe history.
Alfred Dunhill patented everything and anything and he did hold a patent on oil curing. I saw the patent some time in the past but not sure if it called for Whale Oil.
Dunhill is, and always has been a marketing company. Their success can be measured in their 'mystique'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipe Smoker
Hi Doug,
My response to you and Tab could be a book and my intent is not to attack Dunhill, rather to weigh in on what I know factually about pipe manufacturing process, theirs and in general, but much of the answer is in my statement that they're a marketing company.
Whether oil (Dunhill and Ashton) or heat (Sasieni) curing, any additional process beyond proper air curing is meaningless in producing superior smoking pipes and may be harmful. Romantically, it's nice to think of some special process that a company does to make their pipes smoke better but the answer is to buy better briar in the first place. To understand this in context would require a really long discussion about the acquisition of the briar and how it's handled at the saw mill and the physical properties of briar, so I'll summarize;
Billy Taylor worked for Dunhill and created the Ashton pipe with Dave Field. They devised their own oil curing process, similar to Dunhill. Billy stated that it took several bowls to eliminate the taste of the oil and that's consistent with Dunhill. Sasieni held, I believe, a patent on 'baking' their briar and there are stories that you they had people wipe the moisture off the blocks as they baked.
Briar is NOT the root of the heath bush (erica arborea), as most believe, rather it's a tumor that grows off of the root stem. Briar grows outward, away from the root stem, so that the oldest wood is the edge of the burl. Every briar burl contains wood that is as new as the day it was dug and as old as the tumor. Older briar has less pulp (that retains moisture) and resin and it has more defined xylem (grain). Briar grows in arid climates, in sandy and or rocky soil and the tumor is a moisture reservoir. Xylem transfers moisture to the pulp that’s nearer the root stem to aid in the plant's survival but that makes the inside wood (pulp) less desirable for smoking quality.
Diggers harvest burls and bring them to the sawmill where they're cut, boiled (to remove resins, etc.) and then cut again to shape and remove serious flaws. The mill cutters attempt to retain larger, unshaped blocks, from the outside of the burl (plateaux) and that's their most expensive product, normally used by hand makers, while the inner blocks are cut into ebauchons, shaped for use in machine production.
All briar must be air dried and the quality of the drying process is critical for making better pipes but time is money to the saw mills and the premier product, plateaux, is dried longer than ebauchons. The only process that can improve the briar is to air dry it more, anything else is a gimmick or marketing tool and there is no shortcut. Heat (Sasieni) causes fissures. Oil clogs xylem that will retain dust that will take time to smoke out. A honey/water solution in the tobacco chamber can help take off the harsh 'woody' edge off a new bowl.
Thus, controlling your briar supply and using the best briar, plateaux, makes the best pipes. Barling owned their own sawmill in Algeria and, like Dunhill, they made their stems from NY Hamburger rod vulcanite (different blend than Dunhill) so that, as I've said for 35 years, they controlled their quality from 'Ground to Mouth'. Even so well intended there are some poor smoking Barlings.
This is why I always make the distinction between hand and machine made pipes because the latter can't use plateaux (it's not shaped). The difference in process gives hand made pipes a decided edge - as long as they use properly handled plateaux because beautiful and extravagant hand shaping can't make a bad piece of briar smoke well.
Regards,
Pete
That's what I was going to say...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverBend
Took the words right out of your mouth didn't he? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by droy1958
I never dreamed I would get this much information when I posed my question. Thanks a lot guys.
Gents,
There are several videos on the Net that show part of the briar mill process that are either incomplete or out of sequence but these two are good (view in sequence):
Mimmo - Briar Saw Mill
Mimmo with finished blocks