CI "Fake" Cigars?

[jp1979]

Both very good points. But the use of the word 'premium' places the cigar in a different class. If I go to the butcher and he sells me a 'Prime' cut of beef for $2 a pound, when it really should be $10 a pound, I'm excited. But if that beef I bought is really 'Select' under the guise of 'Prime', then the butcher has deceived me. If the FDA finds out of this practice, then he will be fined and lose his license. Why are the same standards not in place for cigar retailers and consumers? If I buy what is advertised as a 'premium' cigar, then it should not contain 'non-premium' tobacco. The same way the butcher can't sell me 'Select' beef under the guise of 'Choice.'

*edit read it wrong* again it was not sold as a premium cigar, no where did it say that. Los Blancos Premiere is the name. it said it was made with premium tobacco, which in someones opinion it might be, in most peoples its not, im not debating the fact that the description is overly done, but so are 90% of the ones you see on ALL products, lotion, cars, food, beer, electronics, etc...

[Skeat5353]

*edit read it wrong* again it was not sold as a premium cigar, no where did it say that. Los Blancos Premiere is the name. it said it was made with premium tobacco, which in someones opinion it might be, in most peoples its not, im not debating the fact that the description is overly done, but so are 90% of the ones you see on ALL products, lotion, cars, food, beer, electronics, etc...

Justin, I find your commentary very honest, stimulating, and sincere. I looked at the Los Blancos advertisement on CI and, yes, there is no mention of 'premium' any where on the page. But have a look at a few links here:

http://www.cigarsinternational.com/s...ment/#p-162826

http://www.cigarsinternational.com/c...-premium-2nds/

http://www.cigarsinternational.com/s...-box/#p-150816

http://www.cigarsinternational.com/s...r-iv/#p-140501

By the use of the word 'premium', CI is putting these cigars under the same umbrella as real premium cigars. I'm not bashing CI. They are well within their rights to market these cigars as such. But to the uninformed and uninitiated, these cigars are 'premium.' Cut them open, and you'll know how premium they are. The tobacco of these cigars is by no means 'premium' at all--not certainly in the same class as genuine premium cigars, like Fuente, Tatuaje, Padron, Davidoff, etc. But they're marketed under this umbrella. That doesn't mean they're fake, as Glynn claimed in his stupid webcast. But they are not 'premium' in any way.

I guess we can just agree to disagree. My FDA meat grade analogy was a bit off, only because there is not the same grading system in place for tobacco, like you indicated. But my point was that there should be a 'grading' system for cigar tobacco. There's no way that retailers should be able to slap a 'premium' label on a shit rocket and sell it for 10 times its true value. If some shlub with a Youtube web channel decides to expose that, it just doesn't seem right that CI can threaten him with legal repercussions and force him to remove a video. Again, it goes back to my small guy vs. big guy analogy above.

Like Ropey was alluding to in his post, I would've stood my ground and forced CI to reveal their shady marketing practices through discovery. And then settled out of court. I would've then taken the money and bought real premium cigars from a dealer in Hong Kong or Geneva! LOL

[Sticky B]

There's no way that retailers should be able to slap a 'premium' label on a shit rocket and sell it for 10 times it's true value.

Are you arguing that the cigar Bryan cut apart was only really worth being sold for $0.10-0.20?

What should machine-made cigars go for?

[Skeat5353]

Are you arguing that the cigar Bryan cut apart was only really worth being sold for $0.10-0.20?

What should machine-made cigars go for?

That's my whole point. How much is 'non-premium' tobacco really worth? We don't know, because there is no such thing as 'non-premium' tobacco, there is no such thing as 'non-premium' cigars--according to the fraudulent marketing practices by these online retailers, there are only 'premium' cigars and 'premium' tobacco in the market. To an uninformed consumer, a 2-dollar shit missile is just as 'premium' as a Davidoff Nicaraguan, because that's how these sites market those cigars. The only difference is the price. One is an $18 'premium' cigar and the other, a $2 'premium' cigar.

That's how companies like CI, Thompson, J&R, and other large online retailers deceive people into buying garbage. They market each cigar, Davidoff Nicaraguan and 2-dollar shit rocket, under the same 'premium' umbrella. Even more pathetic is the fact that they are perfectly within their rights to do so and are not breaking any laws. Why? Because there is absolutely no Federal oversight protecting consumers from these fraudulent marketing practices. According to their marketing methods, whether I buy the $18 Davidoff or the $2 Dog Rocket, I am still buying a 'PREMIUM' cigar.

When I first started with cigars, I signed up at the old site and put a thread out there. Top Five Nic/Dom/Hon, or something like that. And the good people responded with over 200 posts!!! Thanks to all who participated!!! I am still buying and smoking cigars from that list. In fact, the kind people here helped me avoid all kinds of pitfalls out there for the new cigar smoker. And by 'pitfalls', I mean marketing traps like the kind CI and others practice. If it wasn't for the cigar lovers here, I would've been ordering garbage and smoking shite thinking the whole time it was 'premium.' And that is inherently wrong, in my humble and very confused opinion. It doesn't necessarily make it wrong.

Honestly, how much do you think that Blanco cigar is really worth? The price really only reflects the importation costs and that's it. I bet down in the Dominican, where it was manufactured, it's probably worth 5 cents, maybe even 10. So yes, I would say that cigar freshly rolled in the Dominican Republic probably costs no more than 25 cents. But that's just a guess. I don't know what's more disturbing: the value of the cigar itself, or the fact that it is being marketed here as a 'premium' cigar. They are both quite disturbing to me.

[Sticky B]

That's my whole point. How much is 'non-premium' tobacco really worth? We don't know, because there is no such thing as 'non-premium' tobacco, there is no such thing as 'non-premium' cigars--according to the fraudulent marketing practices by these online retailers, there are only 'premium' cigars and 'premium' tobacco in the market. To an uninformed consumer, a 2-dollar shit missile is just as 'premium' as a Davidoff Nicaraguan, because that's how these sites market those cigars. The only difference is the price. One is an $18 'premium' cigar and the other, a $2 'premium' cigar.

That's how companies like CI, Thompson, J&R, and other large online retailers deceive people into buying garbage. They market each cigar, Davidoff Nicaraguan and 2-dollar shit rocket, under the same 'premium' umbrella. Even more pathetic is the fact that they are perfectly within their rights to do so and are not breaking any laws. Why? Because there is absolutely no Federal oversight protecting consumers from these fraudulent marketing practices. According to their marketing methods, whether I buy the $18 Davidoff or the $2 Dog Rocket, I am still buying a 'PREMIUM' cigar.

When I first started with cigars, I signed up at the old site and put a thread out there. Top Five Nic/Dom/Hon, or something like that. And the good people responded with over 200 posts!!! Thanks to all who participated!!! I am still buying and smoking cigars from that list. In fact, the kind people here helped me avoid all kinds of pitfalls out there for the new cigar smoker. And by 'pitfalls', I mean marketing traps like the kind CI and others practice. If it wasn't for the cigar lovers here, I would've been ordering garbage and smoking shite thinking the whole time it was 'premium.' And that is inherently wrong, in my humble and very confused opinion. It doesn't necessarily make it wrong.

Honestly, how much do you think that Blanco cigar is really worth? The price really only reflects the importation costs and that's it. I bet down in the Dominican, where it was manufactured, it's probably worth 5 cents, maybe even 10. So yes, I would say that cigar freshly rolled in the Dominican Republic probably costs no more that 25 cents. But that's just a guess. I don't know what's more disturbing: the value of the cigar itself, or the fact that it is being marketed here as a 'premium' cigar. They are both quite disturbing to me.

If that's your major gripe, that one word, then get over it. Instead you'll defend Brian for calling it a "fake" cigar? Just because he's the small guy?

And yes, if there are two kinds of cigars, there could be "machine-made" and "premium", which yes, covers a LOT of ground. Just like there can be a $2 premium and a $20 premium, the same goes with alcohol. Is not the 14X filtered PREMIUM VODKA sold in plastic jugs the same thing? Are you confused as to which will taste like toiletwater and give you a headache in the morning when shopping for these things?

Are you saying that without help from others, you'd STILL be smoking $2 dogrockets wondering why they weren't as "Premium" (in your mind, of course, some people LOVE em) as you expected- KNOWING that there are also much much more expensive cigars out there? And you would think, HEY-BOTH PREMIUM! and not know that there was any difference otherwise?

If that's the case, you might need the government to hold your hand, probably as you cross the street, as you may be a danger to yourself and/or others.

You're saying a cigar can be worth 5 cents and sold for that in America? You realize machine-made cigars sell for $0.50. How is one that takes human hands to create worth 1/5 of that? Have you no knowledge of what goes into logistics, or no respect for any of the work put into making a hand-made cigar, even if it has what you consider less-than-premium filler?

The point here, is that premium is subjective, so it can be used in advertising when some may disagree. They are not saying certain things that are flat outright lies, and that's why they can get away with it. Making accusations and saying someone is being dishonest without real proof, based only on your interpretation of a subjective word is not okay. You can express your opinion, but that's not what happened, and why the video was removed. It crossed the line that keeps coming up in these countless imaginary scenarios and comparisons that aren't what happened. The cigar wasn't even being called a "premium" at the time, which means this whole thing is really a big case of



Best part - finding company's use of loose word "premium" contentious, while feeling fully in the right throwing around words like "fraudulent"

You're not getting ripped off. That's the point. You're getting exactly what you paid for; a sub $2 cigar.

I guess you'd feel a lot better letting the FDA define what is and what is not a 'premium cigar'. Is that what you want? Government regulation of cigars? I thought we had reached a consensus on that months ago...

I believe that's where he might be going with it? I'd say any hand-rolled cigar can be considered "premium". It's not a well-defined word. Many companies call things premium that aren't exactly that. But it's subjective, so it's not technically a lie. Advertisers use this all the time.

I'm glad that this is what we're concerned about the government regulating rather than companies having to tell us if there is laboratory engineered DNA in the things we eat