CI "Fake" Cigars?

[wabashcr]

tons of things you buy are made by one company and rebranded as something else, and the descriptions for each is completely different, some touting that there product is better than the others, but in reality they are made by the same place and just have a different label on it. BIG one that comes to mind in the whole Porsche/VW/Audi thing, take some of the trim panels off of a Porsche Cheyenne (sp)and they have VW markings on the back, same parts that are made for the Toureg... Anybody going to sue Porsche because its not made with all Porsche parts? I don't think so.

I know this is all about a $2 stick, and it's pointless, but the bigger picture is what interests me. So if you'll indulge me, I'd change your analogy a bit. To me it's more like Porsche has a model, say the old 928, that they no longer want to support. Sales are down, and they have moved on to other projects. But then say a dealer in the US who has several Porsche dealerships, let's call him Ashley Schaeffer, decides to buy the 928 brand/label from Porsche, decides to continue making them in Viet Nam, and sells them as Porsche 928s at his dealerships for $20k. Obviously car people in the know would be aware of what's going on, and with the internet, it would be a lot more difficult to hide that from unsuspecting buyers. But selling them as Porsche 928s, like they were actually made by Porsche, seems flat out wrong to me.

The last thing I want anyone to think is that I'm a Brian Glynn supporter. I'm not. I think he botched this from the beginning, and when it looked like it could backfire and affect his personal interests, he deleted everything and pretended like it never happened. But I still think we're left with a pretty shady and underhanded practice by CI. BG being a douche shouldn't let CI off the hook.

[Cardinal]

...let's call him Ashley Schaeffer...

Ashley Schaeffer! You nailed it.

[jp1979]

I know this is all about a $2 stick, and it's pointless, but the bigger picture is what interests me. So if you'll indulge me, I'd change your analogy a bit. To me it's more like Porsche has a model, say the old 928, that they no longer want to support. Sales are down, and they have moved on to other projects. But then say a dealer in the US who has several Porsche dealerships, let's call him Ashley Schaeffer, decides to buy the 928 brand/label from Porsche, decides to continue making them in Viet Nam, and sells them as Porsche 928s at his dealerships for $20k. Obviously car people in the know would be aware of what's going on, and with the internet, it would be a lot more difficult to hide that from unsuspecting buyers. But selling them as Porsche 928s, like they were actually made by Porsche, seems flat out wrong to me.

Porsche would never sell their brand because they wouldn't want their name tarnished, obviously David Blanco didn't care about that. If Padron did it, it would be an issue for me, but they like Porsche would never do it. I get everybody's big picture gripe, MY point and MY opinion is that this happens so much with so many other products that it just isn't an issue for me personally.

[Ropey]

Porsche would never sell their brand because they wouldn't want their name tarnished

Porsche sells its name to a myriad of others.. I've seen Porsche vacuums, Porsche lighters, all sorts of stuff that's obviously not made by Porsche.

MY point and MY opinion is that this happens so much with so many other products that it just isn't an issue for me personally.

And hey, that's great, if you get ripped off so often that you're at a point in life where you don't mind when someone bends you over and sticks it in your butt one more time, then that's wonderful. I'm not at that point, hope I never am.

If this were a one-off from Cigars International, this thread wouldn't have expanded to 12 pages. However, I think that they, Thompson, the rest of the online cigar retailers, and perhaps the entire cigar industry are seen as such marketing hucksters that one more example just pisses people off even more. It's like a slow boil.

[jp1979]

Porsche sells its name to a myriad of others.. I've seen Porsche vacuums, Porsche lighters, all sorts of stuff that's obviously not made by Porsche.

We go from talking about cars to you using lighters and vacuums... to try to prove your point?

And hey, that's great, if you get ripped off so often that you're at a point in life where you don't mind when someone bends you over and sticks it in your butt one more time, then that's wonderful.

So you study the manufacturer of every product you buy so that you are not buying something that is made by someone, then rebranded and sold for more money? Very doubtful. Also, making the assumption that I get ripped off and saying someone is sticking it up my butt is real classy bro, you know nothing about me buddy. The fact of the matter is, I really don't care if someone gets me for 50 cents if I would have bought a generic brand versus a name brand. Life is too short for that petty shit and not worth worrying about. If that is what your life is about, then have fun.

[Ropey]

We go from talking about cars to you using lighters and vacuums... to try to prove your point?

You're the one who brought up some Porsche analogy and then, when other people extended it, you failed to comprehend what they were saying and wanted people to stop talking about it. We're the confused ones.

So you study the manufacturer of every product you buy so that you are not buying something that is made by someone, then rebranded and sold for more money?

No, of course not, I just don't trash people who bring to my attention shady marketing. Nor do I excuse shady marketers because "everyone is doing it."

I have to admit, I don't even know how to address what you're talking about anymore. You just seem to be out of your intellectual league here. You brought up an analogy, some people gave you alternative ways of looking at your own analogy, and now you can't even seem to grasp what anyone is saying. It's kind of strange.

[jp1979]

You're the one who brought up some Porsche analogy and then, when other people extended it, you failed to comprehend what they were saying and wanted people to stop talking about it. We're the confused ones.

The post I quoted, and was responding to (with the one you quoted) we were talking about Porsche selling their name and rights to the 928 (a car, not a vacuum or a lighter) to a Vietnamese manufacturer to be sold under the same name, I said they would never do that. As far my analogy goes, extending it and taking it in a completely different irrelevant direction are two different things.

And FYI, the lighters, watches, etc... are Porsche Design, not Porsche AG but they do own it.

[wabashcr]

The post I quoted, and was responding to (with the one you quoted) we were talking about Porsche selling their name and rights to the 928 (a car, not a vacuum or a lighter) to a Vietnamese manufacturer to be sold under the same name, I said they would never do that. As far my analogy goes, extending it and taking it in a completely different irrelevant direction are two different things.

And FYI, the lighters, watches, etc... are Porsche Design, not Porsche AG but they do own it.

Of course Porsche wouldn't allow that. That's kinda my point, and also beside the point. The reason I brought it up is because it's a ridiculous scenario, but also more aligned with what I think CI is doing, than Porsche simply using some VW parts in their cars. Just trying to illustrate that in my mind, it's a practice that shouldn't be accepted.

Of course CI isn't the only one doing it, and it's something much more tolerable with $2 cigars than $80k cars. I really don't mean to come across as argumentative in tone to you or anyone else on this thread. It's an interesting discussion to me (and apparently not many others). I don't even necessarily disagree with you. Just see it a little differently.

[Billb1960]

If this were a one-off from Cigars International, this thread wouldn't have expanded to 12 pages. However, I think that they, Thompson, the rest of the online cigar retailers, and perhaps the entire cigar industry are seen as such marketing hucksters that one more example just pisses people off even more. It's like a slow boil.

There is a significant portion, I daresay even a majority of the cigar smoking community which is always trying to find that magical cigar which smokes & tastes like a super premium but only costs a dollar or two. I'm pretty sure all of us have been there at some point in our cigar smoking progression. Hopefully most of us have learned by now that the old maxim, "you get what you pay for" applies to cigars as much as it does to any other endeavor.

However the large online vendors have learned that they can be very successful by marketing to that segment and they use "marketing speak" to do that. That's exactly what they did with the cigars which are the subject of this thread. I don't think they were being blatantly dishonest and the price point should be a very large clue that these weren't going to be Padron clones so I really don't have a problem with their tactics even though I don't think it benefits the cigar industry as a whole.

As far as the people who buy them, it's kind of like those Einsteins that fall for the Nigerian email scams. I really don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them. Do you really think you're going to get something for nothing?

[UncleFesterESQ]

There is a significant portion, I daresay even a majority of the cigar smoking community which is always trying to find that magical cigar which smokes & tastes like a super premium but only costs a dollar or two. I'm pretty sure all of us have been there at some point in our cigar smoking progression. Hopefully most of us have learned by now that the old maxim, "you get what you pay for" applies to cigars as much as it does to any other endeavor.

However the large online vendors have learned that they can be very successful by marketing to that segment and they use "marketing speak" to do that. That's exactly what they did with the cigars which are the subject of this thread. I don't think they were being blatantly dishonest and the price point should be a very large clue that these weren't going to be Padron clones so I really don't have a problem with their tactics even though I don't think it benefits the cigar industry as a whole.

As far as the people who buy them, it's kind of like those Einsteins that fall for the Nigerian email scams. I really don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them. Do you really think you're going to get something for nothing?

Game, set, match!

Although I will admit I'm still on the lookout for that $3 super premium!