What we have to lose

[jhedrick83]

I think it's great that vendors and other industry types want to interact here. It's a good way for them to get feedback, and it provides the members here with a wealth of knowledge and resources within the hobby. I like that this is a welcoming place for fostering those relationships.

That said, I think it's a mistake to stifle criticism just to pander to these businesses (which is kind of what I'm inferring from this thread). Most vendors that interact here are probably good, honorable businesses that would appreciate all feedback, good or bad. While I would never air a complaint here without trying to work it out with the vendor, and would never leverage this forum to take advantage of a supplier, I do think there can be value in discussing shortcomings publicly. Sometimes in business, even smaller businesses, the right hand doesn't always know what the left hand is doing. I think a respectful, yet critical dialog, can be beneficial, and even welcomed by most businesses.

There are also some businesses in this industry with some very unscrupulous business practices. I don't see any reason to dance around that. If that keeps them from participating on the forum, is that really a bad thing? Is it considered "bashing" to be honest and direct about that? I think this forum's integrity is worth a lot more than a 10% discount.

To me, the tone of this thread is very much pro-vendor. While I think it's great to establish good relationships with vendors, I don't think that should ever come at the expense of members (consumers) getting the full story. I think it's dangerous to get too cozy with suppliers, and accountability can gradually be lost. I don't see that becoming an issue for 95% of the vendors in this industry, and hopefully none of the ones that choose to participate here.

I don't feel like anyone's opinions have been stifled here. I fact I think quite a few contentious threads have been allowed to run unmolesed and unclosed. I'd say Cigar Bum mode and admins have been very tolerant of dissenting opinions. Posts haven't been edited, members have been banned over these things. There may have been warnings to keep things on topic and civil but I don't think that can be reasonably objected to. The thread has a pro-vendor tone due in large part because we have been trying to answer Ropey's question of why we care if vendors are here or not. Naturally the answer will be pro-vendor. I agree it is good to express concerns about vendors as long as it is done in a respectful manner. I also think it's important for people to realize that just because they had a bad experience doesn't mean that company X is crooked, bad for the industry, etc. and not immediately turn it into a personal crusade to ruin company X. If there are consistent, repeated problems with vendors then yeah, that's a big issue. I just think you get more bees with honey than vinegar. That's not everyone's opinion and that's fine but for the best interests of the community attitudes need to stay respectful and realistic. I don't think that's too much to ask.

[wabashcr]

I don't feel like anyone's opinions have been stifled here.

I generally agree, and hope it remains that way. I think that's an important part of the "for us, by us" mantra, and why this is a really great forum. I would be disappointed if that changed in an effort to appease vendors. I think the honest and forthright opinions and experiences of the members (consumers and vendors alike) are the true value of this forum, and far outweigh any potential perks or discounts. That's all I really wanted to convey.

I have no argument with any of the rest of your post.

[jhedrick83]

I generally agree, and hope it remains that way. I think that's an important part of the "for us, by us" mantra, and why this is a really great forum. I would be disappointed if that changed in an effort to appease vendors. I think the honest and forthright opinions and experiences of the members (consumers and vendors alike) are the true value of this forum, and far outweigh any potential perks or discounts.

I'm sure I speak for my fellow mods/admins what I say that is our goal to ensure it remains that way. I value the forum itself far more than a discount on items and if there are problem vendors that's one thing. I just think having vendor/manufacturer participation can provide the forum with a great knowledge base and good connections for the members. The best communities are well rounded ones IMO, which is why I like dissenting opinions.