What we have to lose

[CeeGar]

Great post, Cole. In my humble opinion, if anyone here has a specific issue with a vendor (especially a vendor that's a member here), keep it to pm or email.

I don't mind seeing general grumblings, such as, " Hey, my last experience with that vendor left a bit to be desired. If anyone cares to hear my story, pm me."

I can't stand to see unadulterated bashing. What's worse are the threads that start shouting all kinds of butt-hurt before they have even contacted the vendor and given them a chance to make it right.

[Ropey]

Why again do we care if vendors and/or retailers post here? I'm confused.

I also chafe at censorship. Especially when it feels like I'm being censored so that other people can make money.

[Tobias Lutz]

Why again do we care if vendors and/or retailers post here? I'm confused.

I also chafe at censorship. Especially when it feels like I'm being censored so that other people can make money.

You might want to consider that it is about more than vendors making money off of you. It's about members of this forum having access to specials, promotions, and industry information that we would not otherwise be easily privy to. Not to mention, these folks are smokers/blenders/etc. themselves, and they're just as much a botl/sotl as anyone else who registers.

[Ropey]

You might want to consider that it is about more than vendors making money off of you. It's about members of this forum having access to specials, promotions, and industry information that we would not otherwise be easily privy to.

Guess I value the ability to say what I want more than freebies. To each his own I suppose.

[Tobias Lutz]

Guess I value the ability to say what I want more than freebies. To each his own I suppose.

My point is simply that the person you you take your concerns to is the vendor that you have an issue with. We're a hobbyist forum, not the Better Business Bureau. We are not a platform for bashing retailers, and we are not to be leveraged by people trying to get what they want by posting one-sided attacks on the interwebs.

[UncleFesterESQ]

Allow me to state for the record that I heartily endorse each and every vendor on this site!

Vendors: Please PM me for my address to send me free smokes and cigar accoutrements!

Thank you.

[jhedrick83]

Why again do we care if vendors and/or retailers post here? I'm confused.

I also chafe at censorship. Especially when it feels like I'm being censored so that other people can make money.

You may not care, but that doesn't me we as a group don't care. I'll elaborate and hopefully alleviate your confusion. Everyone is here for a different reason. Some of us like the comradare, come of us like to talk cigars, some of us like to find deals, some of us like to share our tobacco related projects, etc. we have FOGs, noobs and everything in between here. Some of us like social interaction and like to do business with people we know. There are a lot of advantages to having retailers and manufacturers here. I'll list just a few for you.

1. We can get to know where our money is going.
2. We can build relationships that can get us access to cigars that are not as easily available. Example: you can't order Opus X from @FamousSmokeShop website, but you can pm them here (assuming you have that feature enabled) , see what is in stock, what the prices are and call to place an order. That's a bonus to me.
3. The vendors send us special deals and discounts. There are several cigar Bum centric Promo codes that we have here.
4. Noobs and FOGs alike can ask questions to their vendors directly and learn more about the hobby and make wiser purchases.
5. We have a common interest, the enjoyment of tobacco and protection of that enjoyment.
6. There are people out there like Steve Saka @ssaka who have forgotten more than most of us know and will from time to time drop exceptional nuggets of knowledge on us.
7. When we have issues with products, it can be brought to their attention in a useful manner for both consumer and retailer. Improving the experience for us all.

There are plenty more reasons I, as well as the vast majority of the members here, could come up with.

Who is censoring you? Making a comment like that seems to me that you are expecting blowback from your comment, almost like you are looking to start trouble. Feel free to pm me if you want to discuss your concerns further.

[HIM]

Why again do we care if vendors and/or retailers post here? I'm confused.

I also chafe at censorship. Especially when it feels like I'm being censored so that other people can make money.

I certainly understand your desire not to be censored and I support that. What I'm getting at is many times theres a way to convey things civilly rather than flaming. More often than not a well articulated grief carries a heavier hand and tends to have a better outcome for all parties involved. Im not saying don't address a problem, thats your right as a consumer. Just do it like a gentlemen not a teenage jackass if your going to bring it to the board or it makes the forum look bad.

[Herf N Turf]

Why again do we care if vendors and/or retailers post here? I'm confused.

I also chafe at censorship. Especially when it feels like I'm being censored so that other people can make money.

First of all, and I assume this is your main concern... even though you've consistently been an author of contentious posts, no one has yet censored you. All your posts are here and remain intact, so I really don't understand your accusation of censorship.

Secondly, we ALL benefit from industry communication. We are pledged to allow them the space and free license to post anything they want, in order to advance our knowledge and feed us information, as well as answer questions and concerns that we, as consumers, might have. If we offend them, or tell them we either "don't care", or worse, "don't want them", we cheat ourselves out of extremely valuable information about the products we care about most. Why this doesn't make sense to you, only you can discern.

Personally, I want to ENCOURAGE industry people to frequent this forum. I cannot imagine a better way to get real information about the products we consume, IN REAL TIME, than to have representatives from tobacco companies coming here and telling us what's going on. They also should find us to be a place where they can come in order to find out what we're consuming, what we like, what we're excited about; what's working and what's not.

I want this place to be a place where both sides can communicate freely and openly with one another. I want to make this a place where industry insiders are comfortable and encouraged to speak freely.

As such, we're not going to be in the business of shewing them off, or insulting them. We will treat them with the same respect that we require member-to-member. We're not going to abide vendor bashing, or smack-talk about a retailer. If one of our members has a LEGITIMATE gripe, or has otherwise been "ripped off" by someone, fine, okay. That's something that's helpful and can benefit the community. Our responsibility as members is make absolutely certain that the information we're dispensing is vetted and absolutely accurate; that the vendor has been given EVERY POSSIBLE opportunity to make things right, BEFORE posting anything negative in open forum.

It is for the benefit of US ALL that such posts not be allowed on Cigar Bum. Offending vendors; retailers, manufactures and posting things that might otherwise discourage their activity here is anathema to the best interest of our community.

[dj1340]

Well lets see, no vendors who invest thousands of dollars in inventory so we can buy from them would amount to us
not having anyone to purchase from. Not to mention, as Tobias said , the discounts they give to members of any
forum. Kind of how business runs in my mind.